DFW 5.0s Callout Lists

[Grandpa]

And like I said on Facebook, that was the first time to take that car down the 1/4 mile track and first time for me in over ten years. I need more seat time for sure and figure out the best combo for my car with the MT82

I know, but you were telling us all how you were a driving mofo come to find out you don't even know how to do a proper burn out. Standing on the rev-limiter in 1st gear?! Dude, you're lucky you didn't hurt the motor in the car. Thankfully you didn't seem to hurt it and were able to get it out of limp mode to make some more passes. It's definitely a quick car, just not with you driving it right now.

Proper burnout = heel/toe in 2nd gear.

I ran 117mph

So did I with nothing more than a hpipe and a tune on fully inflated street tires. ;)

[Grandpa]

And I'm talking about just on motor I would crush you.

In theory you should, sure. I'd agree with that since you make like 80rw more than I do. But what I was saying that roll racing anything under the 800rw power level doesn't take a lot of skill. Above that is a different story though and take some skill when you get to big power levels.

But I'll run you. 1st gear roll from like 10-15mph and you have to put your street tires back on to be fair.

[BLK2012GT]

I know, but you were telling us all how you were a driving mofo come to find out you don't even know how to do a proper burn out. Standing on the rev-limiter in 1st gear?! Dude, you're lucky you didn't hurt the motor in the car. Thankfully you didn't seem to hurt it and were able to get it out of limp mode to make some more passes. It's definitely a quick car, just not with you driving it right now.

Proper burnout = heel/toe in 2nd gear.



So did I with nothing more than a hpipe and a tune on fully inflated street tires. ;)

Not once did I say I was great track driver since I haven't been to the track over ten years. On the street I think I'm a lot better driver. Nic ran a 12.6 last night but when him and I raced on the hwy I know I beat him by more then .3. Like I said I need more seat time at the track.

[BLK2012GT]

In theory you should, sure. I'd agree with that since you make like 80rw more than I do. But what I was saying that roll racing anything under the 800rw power level doesn't take a lot of skill. Above that is a different story though and take some skill when you get to big power levels.

But I'll run you. 1st gear roll from like 10-15mph and you have to put your street tires back on to be fair.

Those were my street tires I was running last night.

[Grandpa]

Not once did I say I was great track driver since I haven't been to the track over ten years. On the street I think I'm a lot better driver. Nic ran a 12.6 last night but when him and I raced on the hwy I know I beat him by more then .3. Like I said I need more seat time at the track.

I can understand why you're backpeddling a lil bit right now. I'm not going to bust your balls about it too much and I'm just keeping your honest. You're eating some crow right now and I'm sure it doesn't taste all that great but you have to expect it abit after your TONS of smack talking. You did say to all of us that you were a badass driver and wouldn't have any problems etc etc etc after you were busting my balls about missing fourth.

Nick has been faster than a 12.6. Him and I were both running faster than that last time out.

And of course you think you're a better street driver. There is nothing to tell you otherwise like a time slip. Everyone's car feels faster on the street. lol.

Those were my street tires I was running last night.

You don't have your 20's anymore? You running the bigs/littles full time?

[BLK2012GT]

I can understand why you're backpeddling a lil bit right now. I'm not going to bust your balls about it too much and I'm just keeping your honest. You're eating some crow right now and I'm sure it doesn't taste all that great but you have to expect it abit after your TONS of smack talking. You did say to all of us that you were a badass driver and wouldn't have any problems etc etc etc after you were busting my balls about missing fourth.

Nick has been faster than a 12.6. Him and I were both running faster than that last time out.

And of course you think you're a better street driver. There is nothing to tell you otherwise like a time slip. Everyone's car feels faster on the street. lol.



You don't have your 20's anymore? You running the bigs/littles full time?

Not back peddling one bit. I've always said I would need practice and seat time at the track. We just got the car running like it should NA. I knew I wasn't going to do great at the track my first go around. But I know I will get better.


And yes I sold my 20's to another member and I wouldn't consider 17X7 littles and 305's bigs since people on running those anyways.

[Grandpa]

Does E85 still suck?

[BLK2012GT]

Does E85 still suck?

Yes since I used over half a tank driving down there and 1/4 of a tank racing. Good thing I brought a 6 extra gallons with me or I wouldn't gotten home since no one in Ennis including the track sells gods juice.

[Grandpa]

Haha , yeah those cars tend to drink a lil more but that is the price for uber power. Oddly enough though, Kevin drove all the way there and home on the same tank. Fuck, if he only knew what he was doing...

[Dark Pony]

I grove down there, raced and drove home on less than half a tank of E85

[Grandpa]

I grove down there, raced and drove home on less than half a tank of E85

Awesome! How did you do on your passes? Wasn't that turnout bad ass too? Not bad for "not a car club", right?

[Yagermeister]

More seat time will help but only so much as we saw Clint who definitely knows how to drive pedal it marginally faster. 117-119mph is good for 11.6-11.8. Spinning usually increases mph. With 500+ HP I expect your combo to go 125-130mph without the NOS. The top NA guys in the country (wbt, caspergt, shaun@aed, j.j.@woodbine) with stock heads, stock cams, stock internals run 125-126mph...stock suspension too with just 275 rear DRs and littles upfront. All the cars weighed in right around 3500-3600 with fuel and driver. (Roughly 150-250 lbs pulled out of the cars depending what model and options they had).

What changes to the suspension or tires do you think are needed to increase mph by 6-11mph and drop a full second in e.t.?

[Midnight11]

Brent, wbt and kdanner were both there. His car is a beast with the cobra jet

[Grandpa]

More seat time will help but only so much as we saw Clint who definitely knows how to drive pedal it marginally faster. 117-119mph is good for 11.6-11.8. Spinning usually increases mph. With 500+ HP I expect your combo to go 125-130mph without the NOS. The top NA guys in the country (wbt, caspergt, shaun@aed, j.j.@woodbine) with stock heads, stock cams, stock internals run 125-126mph...stock suspension too with just 275 rear DRs and littles upfront. All the cars weighed in right around 3500-3600 with fuel and driver. (Roughly 150-250 lbs pulled out of the cars depending what model and options they had).

What changes to the suspension or tires do you think are needed to increase mph by 6-11mph and drop a full second in e.t.?

Jeff was saying last night with him in the car he's over 4000lbs. Those other guys must be gutting the shit out of their cars.

[Midnight11]

Jeff was saying last night with him in the car he's over 4000lbs. Those other guys must be gutting the shit out of their cars.

I had everything in my car and I'm a 13 with a full tank. 3750

[Yagermeister]

My car is 3550 with 1/4 tank with me in it with only the seats removed and trunk shit out. Have sway bar delete as well.

[Dark Pony]

I weighed 3750 with me in it and a full tank. Best run was 12.5 at 115 spinning through first.

[Yagermeister]

wbt and kdanner from San Antonio were there? Kdanner has a white boss motor auto car with a Cobra Jet intake...bada$$ car! wbt has my cars near exact combo but gray... He just added a k member I believe

[Yagermeister]

Stock my car with premium heated seats and all the stuff in the trunk half tank of gas and me in it was 3825

[Midnight11]

wbt and kdanner from San Antonio were there? Kdanner has a white boss motor auto car with a Cobra Jet intake...bada$$ car! wbt has my cars near exact combo but gray... He just added a k member I believe

Yes we talked to both. Just the grey car was there. Gave him a card

[Yagermeister]

Wbt has run publicly a 10.87 @ 126 uncorrected in around 1400 DA which is really close to the 1941 DA @9pm you guys had before the kmember went in. Would have been good to meet them. My combo is almost identical to his hence why I am confident I'll get close to what he ran. What did his car run last night?

[Doug1227]

Mine's 3880 with me and 1/4 tank. Nothing in the trunk.

[BLK2012GT]

Yeah I took my car to a scrape iron yard and weighed my car and without me in it and around half a tank it weighed 3873 without me in it. So with me I'm at 4150. So Brent your car weighs 600 pounds less then mine. So right there I could pick up .6 in time in weight alone.

[BLK2012GT]

Wbt has run publicly a 10.87 @ 126 uncorrected in around 1400 DA which is really close to the 1941 DA @9pm you guys had before the kmember went in. Would have been good to meet them. My combo is almost identical to his hence why I am confident I'll get close to what he ran. What did his car run last night?

10.80's I think. His car is gutted inside. And he's only running 3.31's and a 4k stall.

[JDBishopArts]

Yeah I was 3872 with half a tank of gas and me in it.

[Midnight11]

Wbt has run publicly a 10.87 @ 126 uncorrected in around 1400 DA which is really close to the 1941 DA @9pm you guys had before the kmember went in. Would have been good to meet them. My combo is almost identical to his hence why I am confident I'll get close to what he ran. What did his car run last night?

He said last night was the worst air he's ran in lol still ran 10s I think around mids. Ask josh Gomez the 13 auto d1 I know they lined up for sure

[Midnight11]

Yeah I took my car to a scrape iron yard and weighed my car and without me in it and around half a tank it weighed 3873 without me in it. So with me I'm at 4150. So Brent your car weighs 600 pounds less then mine. So right there I could pick up .6 in time in weight alone.

I really don't see how yours weighs that much. Usually bases are lighter then premiums

[Yagermeister]

I patterned my build after his :-) same 3.31s/Boss intake/newer 4500 stall. Jeff I would scrap that weight from a scrap yard and just use Ennis' because that seems WAY off. You're probably around 3800 like every other Mustang

[BLK2012GT]

I really don't see how yours weighs that much. Usually bases are lighter then premiums

Yeah that's what I thought too unless their scale is off which I highly doubt it cause that's money for them. Plus they weighed me alone and it was correct on my weight.

[Dark Pony]

Jeff, your car is still that heavy with Racestars and small brakes?

[Midnight11]

Yeah that's what I thought too unless their scale is off which I highly doubt it cause that's money for them. Plus they weighed me alone and it was correct on my weight.

Scale was off...

[BLK2012GT]

Scale was off...

I doubt it. Like I said I stood on it alone and it was correct on my weight.

[Grandpa]

Yeah I took my car to a scrape iron yard and weighed my car and without me in it and around half a tank it weighed 3873 without me in it. So with me I'm at 4150. So Brent your car weighs 600 pounds less then mine. So right there I could pick up .6 in time in weight alone.

Man, that is crazy. I think you may have a crooked scrapyard or something. lol. You need to find another scale. There is no reason your car should be that much heavier than someone like Doug's car. His car is an auto, the KB and regular wheel setup and he's much lighter than you. The auto cars tend to be quite abit heavier. With your M6 and racing wheels I don't see how you can be that heavy.

I really don't see how yours weighs that much. Usually bases are lighter then premiums

I agree.

[BLK2012GT]

I've dealt with this company for years and my dad has dealt with them for 30 plus years. I know the owner very well so I highly doubt their scale is off. That's why I went their cause he let me do it for free and I figure its pretty damn accurate.

[Grandpa]

I've dealt with this company for years and my dad has dealt with them for 30 plus years. I know the owner very well so I highly doubt their scale is off. That's why I went their cause he let me do it for free and I figure its pretty damn accurate.

Well then maybe next time you need to remove the dead body of the guy who sold you E85 from the trunk to lighten her up!

[Dark Pony]

Lol

[BLK2012GT]

Well I know I need to get my pig skinner. But then again I want to run my times full weight and not take shit out of my car.

[Luke]

Mine (premium) weighed in at 3785 with me in it, only weight reduction was the driveshaft and wheels

[DirtyD]

My car with me in it and the strut tower brace removed was 3790#, without me 3620#.

I also talked to wbt. I saw the car when we got there and knew I recognized it.

I saw him run a 10.96 I believe, at 121 I think. Even he was having issues with the track.

[downtime!]

Damn, makes me wonder how mine would have run now. My 10.85 came in D/A that was nearly identical to what ya'll had last night.

Before the KB install, my car weighed 3755 with me in it, and a little under half a tank of gas (scales at MIR). That was running Racestars and 275/60's and the stock 19's up front, full interior, nothing in the trunk. To lighten these cars up, you have to be dedicated, and get very creative. If you don't believe me, take the entire back seat out and then pick up all the pieces at once. It weighs next to nothing.

[kdanner]

10.80's I think. His car is gutted inside. And he's only running 3.31's and a 4k stall.

Car has a roll bar, so no back seat. Passenger seat is removed at the track, nobody else ever does that, right? So, if that is what you call gutted, ok then. :emotions34:

Car ran a best of 10.92 at nearly 125 last night. 60' was 1.55-1.57 every pass. Track surface was awesome. If you guys think that place is bad, you should suffer at San Antonio sometime, you'll change your minds real quick. :sunot:

I do wonder about trap speeds at Ennis though. This car has trapped a hint above 126 at San Antonio and Houston, and has never run out of RPM in 3rd, but it did last night and I had to make it cross while upshifting to 4th. Only way it could run out of RPM would be to have some slippage, or it's trapping faster than before. Data doesn't show any slippage. I really think those trap speeds were inaccurate at least in the left lane, he never ran in the other side.

[46Tbird]

Good to meet you guys. That GT runs hard!

[DirtyD]

Car has a roll bar, so no back seat. Passenger seat is removed at the track, nobody else ever does that, right? So, if that is what you call gutted, ok then. :emotions34:

Car ran a best of 10.92 at nearly 125 last night. 60' was 1.55-1.57 every pass. Track surface was awesome. If you guys think that place is bad, you should suffer at San Antonio sometime, you'll change your minds real quick. :sunot:

I do wonder about trap speeds at Ennis though. This car has trapped a hint above 126 at San Antonio and Houston, and has never run out of RPM in 3rd, but it did last night and I had to make it cross while upshifting to 4th. Only way it could run out of RPM would be to have some slippage, or it's trapping faster than before. Data doesn't show any slippage. I really think those trap speeds were inaccurate at least in the left lane, he never ran in the other side.

Yeah, I notice the trap speeds seemed just a tad off for some of my runs.

[kdanner]

Yeah, good meeting ya'll. Wish that track was closer. Just too far and too much towing expense to go there often. We'll probably try Sealy, it's a little closer for us, not sure what to expect down there. I can be at Little River in a half hour, I don't go there because the traction is so bad, and now San Antonio has become just as bad.

[Rebelracer568]

Here some interesting info for yall. In houston last year my 12 with cai and bama race tune and 3.31 gear went 12.3 at 120mph. Jeffs car is capable of low 11's on good track

[BLK2012GT]

Car has a roll bar, so no back seat. Passenger seat is removed at the track, nobody else ever does that, right? So, if that is what you call gutted, ok then. :emotions34:

Car ran a best of 10.92 at nearly 125 last night. 60' was 1.55-1.57 every pass. Track surface was awesome. If you guys think that place is bad, you should suffer at San Antonio sometime, you'll change your minds real quick. :sunot:

I do wonder about trap speeds at Ennis though. This car has trapped a hint above 126 at San Antonio and Houston, and has never run out of RPM in 3rd, but it did last night and I had to make it cross while upshifting to 4th. Only way it could run out of RPM would be to have some slippage, or it's trapping faster than before. Data doesn't show any slippage. I really think those trap speeds were inaccurate at least in the left lane, he never ran in the other side.

Just took a glance inside real quick and only saw a passenger seat so the inside is empty so it looks gutted.

[Oxford14Stang]

My car 14' MT82 base model with sync full interior spare tire tools jack and all with half a tank and me in it weighed in at exactly 3800lbs . I run my car like I drive it everywhere. Full interior and a spare tire to bolt on if I get a flat lol I ran consistent 13.1s spinning first, and letting off in 2nd when car started to go sideways but had traction in 3rd and fourth. Thanks to Josh Bishop I tried his recommendation on the launch and got my 60' to consistent 2.1s from my 2.2s almost 2.3s on my stock 235/55/18s with a little more seat time (only made 3 passes, 4th pass I couldn't get 2nd in so babed it down) I think I could improve it more.

[Oxford14Stang]

I did however get Ant to excited and got him to miss third trying to power shift lol. Than ran him again we took off almost identical, I pulled 2nd gear, he missed 3rd once more and fourth :D what a night

[wbt]

10.80's I think. His car is gutted inside. And he's only running 3.31's and a 4k stall.

I told you on s197 I was going to be there. Seems you are full of excuses. Not sure why. My car is far from gutted. As kdanner said, it has the passenger seat removed, rear seats removed, and trunk liners removed. Maybe ~65lbs. tops from that. The car is NHRA legal down to 10.00 which means all that equipment only adds weight to the car. It still has A/C, stereo, and is very streetable. Not anything close to being a race car.

Now we hear your car weighs 4,000+lbs. without any heavy superchargers, turbo kits, etc. It must be the heaviest non-power adder s197 on the planet. I would be horribly disappointed with the times and trap speeds your car ran based on the dyno numbers. This is why you shouldn't get wrapped up in racing dyno's. The track is what counts.

Good to meet you guys. That GT runs hard!

Thanks man! Enjoyed meeting and chatting with everyone. Now we aren't so bad in person are we? :P

Onto the track conditions.....this was my first time back to the Motorplex in 13 years. The facilities were in every bit as good of shape as they were in the late '90's and only second to Houston Raceway Park IMO. The track was fantastic all night. I never had a traction issue. The car hooked and was straight as an arrow down the entire track. I was highly impressed and will be back to run more. It's a long haul but worth it.

On the times.....I made quite a few changes to the car in the past few months and our goal was to work on the tune and any other issues we ran into. The car ran great in crappy air and it showed great potential for when the weather starts to cool in a couple of months.

Since last November, this car has run 10's every time it has been out in varying conditions. It has run 10's at every major track in Texas. I am super excited about that. No other street legal N/A stock long block car has done that. :head3:

[BLK2012GT]

I told you on s197 I was going to be there. Seems you are full of excuses. Not sure why. My car is far from gutted. As kdanner said, it has the passenger seat removed, rear seats removed, and trunk liners removed. Maybe ~65lbs. tops from that. The car is NHRA legal down to 10.00 which means all that equipment only adds weight to the car. It still has A/C, stereo, and is very streetable. Not anything close to being a race car.

Now we hear your car weighs 4,000+lbs. without any heavy superchargers, turbo kits, etc. It must be the heaviest non-power adder s197 on the planet. I would be horribly disappointed with the times and trap speeds your car ran based on the dyno numbers. This is why you shouldn't get wrapped up in racing dyno's. The track is what counts.



Thanks man! Enjoyed meeting and chatting with everyone. Now we aren't so bad in person are we? :P

Onto the track conditions.....this was my first time back to the Motorplex in 13 years. The facilities were in every bit as good of shape as they were in the late '90's and only second to Houston Raceway Park IMO. The track was fantastic all night. I never had a traction issue. The car hooked and was straight as an arrow down the entire track. I was highly impressed and will be back to run more. It's a long haul but worth it.

On the times.....I made quite a few changes to the car in the past few months and our goal was to work on the tune and any other issues we ran into. The car ran great in crappy air and it showed great potential for when the weather starts to cool in a couple of months.

Since last November, this car has run 10's every time it has been out in varying conditions. It has run 10's at every major track in Texas. I am super excited about that. No other street legal N/A stock long block car has done that. :head3:

You got me confuse with someone else cause you never told me shit on s197 about you being anywhere. And I think anyone can drive an auto down a track. How hard is it to push just a peddle? Usually people who get autos can't drive a stick. But enjoy your chick tranny. And never said my car was 4k plus. Said it was 3873 with everything in it and 4k with me in it. So learn how to read.

[Midnight11]

Good to meet you last night wbt and kdanner! Look forward for the info on the cobra jet. Cars a beast

[wbt]

You got me confuse with someone else cause you never told me shit on s197 about you being anywhere. And I think anyone can drive an auto down a track. How hard is it to push just a peddle? Usually people who get autos can't drive a stick. But enjoy your chick tranny.

I don't think so....
http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1817643&postcount=135
http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=103795

Driving a stick.....I suppose I didn't do that in my 2011.....
cWRwi-yaZFw

Anywho, get some tires on the car and hit the track again. No reason a 500WHP 2011+ 5.0 car should run 12's.

[wbt]

Good to meet you last night wbt and kdanner! Look forward for the info on the cobra jet. Cars a beast

You too and thanks!

[Bearded Banger]

Cross Talk tore 12.2 up all night foos!

[Dark Pony]

Jeff is picking more fights?

[BLK2012GT]

I don't think so....
http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1817643&postcount=135
http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=103795

Driving a stick.....I suppose I didn't do that in my 2011.....
cWRwi-yaZFw

Anywho, get some tires on the car and hit the track again. No reason a 500WHP 2011+ 5.0 car should run 12's.

Were you on slicks? Cause I wasn't. I even had the shop owner drive my car last night and he went 11.8 at 119 but only a 1.9 60ft. That was my first time down the track with that car since it got finish, and first time I went down in over ten years. I wasn't expecting much until I get better tires and slicks.

[BLK2012GT]

Jeff is picking more fights?

Nope but new guy thinks I'm someone else from s197 forums.

[BLK2012GT]

And I hardly ever get on that site so I never saw that post. You posted that on 7-19-13 so yeah I would had never seen that since I get on s197 maybe once a week.

[Grandpa]

Jeff is picking more fights?

I don't think he'll be picking anymore fights for awhile due to his performance last night after his ricer burnout on the rev-limiter and his 25 second pass. lol.

[kdanner]

Were you on slicks?

That car hasn't had a slick on it in well over a year.

[BLK2012GT]

I don't think he'll be picking anymore fights for awhile due to his performance last night after his ricer burnout on the rev-limiter and his 25 second pass. lol.

Yes cause that was my only pass of the night. If you think you can hang with me lets race next Friday at the coit meet for 100 dollars unless you still can't find fourth.

[BLK2012GT]

That car hasn't had a slick on it in well over a year.

Was talking about on his '11 car.

[Grandpa]

Yes cause that was my only pass of the night. If you think you can hang with me lets race next Friday at the coit meet for 100 dollars unless you still can't find fourth.

So much for you not street racing... :happy175:

[BLK2012GT]

So much for you not street racing... :happy175:

How do you think I race kent and Nic?

So is that yes to the bet?

[Grandpa]

How do you think I race kent and Nic?

So is that yes to the bet?

No. I don't race friends for money, always causes bad blood. Secondly, after seeing you drive, I don't want to be next to you racing until you get some more seat time. I don't want you crashing into me.

You have a fully built car and you are throwing your money around against my h pipe only car. :snoopfacepalm:

[BLK2012GT]

No. I don't race friends for money, always causes bad blood. Secondly, after seeing you drive, I don't want to be next to you racing until you get some more seat time. I don't want you crashing into me.

You have a fully built car and you are throwing your money around against my h pipe only car. :snoopfacepalm:

Maybe you should stop talking shit about me and my car then if you aren't going to back it up. And my driving is just fine on the street. I just need better tires for the track.

[wbt]

Nope but new guy thinks I'm someone else from s197 forums.

And I hardly ever get on that site so I never saw that post. You posted that on 7-19-13 so yeah I would had never seen that since I get on s197 maybe once a week.

I got it right.

Was talking about on his '11 car.

My '11 had ET Streets on it. That car never made a pass on a full slick. As you can hear in the video traction was terrible with those tires. Even at that it ran 11.6 in 2'500' of air and dyno'd 432whp. No reason for your 500+whp car to be running 12's.

Less talk, more production. :waytogo:

[BLK2012GT]

I got it right.



My '11 had ET Streets on it. That car never made a pass on a full slick. As you can hear in the video traction was terrible with those tires. Even at that it ran 11.6 in 2'500' of air and dyno'd 432whp. No reason for your 500+whp car to be running 12's.

Less talk, more production. :waytogo:

Your car was on better tires then me. And you're right a 500 rwhp car shouldn't run 12's. like I said before since people can't read. This is my first time at the 1/4 mile track with this car and first time for me in over 10 years. So I'm a bit rusty for track racing cause its completely different then me racing on the streets. With better tires and more seat time I will be running better times. But everyone has to remember I'm not going for records just my personal achievements. I want to run 10's NA full weight and run low 10's with nitrous. I'm far from those numbers but its a starting point so it will get better.

[Dark Pony]

Good Lord...take it easy...

This shit talking has no weight though. Take it to the track. A 60 punch on the highway is basically a dyno run. I want to see you guys actually run at the track.

Most guys had issues launching, unless they were running slicks or ET's. I could only pull a 1.9 60' out of my 305/35/20's, but then again I didn't want to blow an MT82.

Somebody please let Jeff borrow some slicks so we can end this!

[Grandpa]

Maybe you should stop talking shit about me and my car then if you aren't going to back it up. And my driving is just fine on the street. I just need better tires for the track.

I didn't say I wouldn't race you, just won't do it for money. And after all the shit you talked, you can't tell anyone else to stop. I may have missed fourth, but I can do a proper burnout in the correct gear without bouncing it off the rev-limiter and I went just as fast you did with a near stock car. I'm down for a deadstop 1/8th mile race :mwah1:

[BLK2012GT]

Good Lord...take it easy...

This shit talking has no weight though. Take it to the track. A 60 punch on the highway is basically a dyno run. I want to see you guys actually run at the track.

Most guys had issues launching, unless they were running slicks or ET's. I could only pull a 1.9 60' out of my 305/35/20's, but then again I didn't want to blow an MT82.

Somebody please let Jeff borrow some slicks so we can end this!

Nah I'm buying my own wheels and tires

[BLK2012GT]

I didn't say I wouldn't race you, just won't do it for money. And after all the shit you talked, you can't tell anyone else to stop. I may have missed fourth, but I can do a proper burnout in the correct gear without bouncing it off the rev-limiter and I went just as fast you did with a near stock car. :mwah1:

So you should have no problem hanging with me. Like I said put your money where your mouth is.

[wbt]

Good Lord...take it easy...

This shit talking has no weight though. Take it to the track. A 60 punch on the highway is basically a dyno run. I want to see you guys actually run at the track.

Most guys had issues launching, unless they were running slicks or ET's. I could only pull a 1.9 60' out of my 305/35/20's, but then again I didn't want to blow an MT82.

Somebody please let Jeff borrow some slicks so we can end this!

Hehehe.... He is a bit sensitive. I would like to see him reach his goals as well. That's why we all do this. :) It's still fun poking at him.

Tires, seat time, and a good shifter should go a long way.

[Grandpa]

So you should have no problem hanging with me. Like I said put your money where your mouth is.

As I said, I will race you. From a dig and a 1/8th mile race. No money.

[BLK2012GT]

Hehehe.... He is a bit sensitive. I would like to see him reach his goals as well. That's why we all do this. :) It's still fun poking at him.

Tires, seat time, and a good shifter should go a long way.

Not sensitive at all. I'm not on great tires and haven't been to the track in years. I would had been very happy to hit 11's my first time back in over a decade. But it didn't happen oh well. But Steve won't bet me cause we are "friends" yet he gives me a lot of shit when usually friends don't do that. At least not as much as he does. I guess since he got so much shit at Dfwmustangs he thinks he can do that here. I think I'm going to call Steve, Eric.

[OG Fox]

So you should have no problem hanging with me. Like I said put your money where your mouth is.

jeff, maybe you should practice being more humble. you said your car was gonna be faster than Brents, and you couldn't break outta of the 12s. You should grab the Tampax because you don't even know how to do a burnout. and stop talking shit about automatics. For drag racing, there is not other way to do it.

Hehehe.... He is a bit sensitive. I would like to see him reach his goals as well. That's why we all do this. :) It's still fun poking at him.

Tires, seat time, and a good shifter should go a long way.

didn't get to meet you last night, but your car was a monster, hope to see you in october at our Camaro vs Mustang event in Ennis.

As I said, I will race you. From a dig and a 1/8th mile race. No money.

I would pay both your entrance fees to make this happen. But im sure jeff will come up with excuses.

[BLK2012GT]

jeff, maybe you should practice being more humble. you said your car was gonna be faster than Brents, and you couldn't break outta of the 12s. You should grab the Tampax because you don't even know how to do a burnout. and stop talking shit about automatics. For drag racing, there is not other way to do it.



didn't get to meet you last night, but your car was a monster, hope to see you in october at our Camaro vs Mustang event in Ennis.



I would pay both your entrance fees to make this happen. But im sure jeff will come up with excuses.

Still sucking Brent's dick I see. I guess I would to driving around in that car you have.

[Grandpa]

Not sensitive at all. I'm not on great tires and haven't been to the track in years. I would had been very happy to hit 11's my first time back in over a decade. But it didn't happen oh well. But Steve won't bet me cause we are "friends" yet he gives me a lot of shit when usually friends don't do that. At least not as much as he does. I guess since he got so much shit at Dfwmustangs he thinks he can do that here. I think I'm going to call Steve, Eric.

Dude, you seriously need to lighten up. After all that smack talk you did for so long, you can't seriously expect not to get some ribbing about it all. You're complaining about the same thing you do, you still give me crap about the 4th gear thing, see me complaining about it? No, cuz it is funny. It's not a big deal. I told you with some seat time you will get it down.

[Grandpa]

Still sucking Brent's dick I see. I guess I would to driving around in that car you have.

Comments like this is why people jump your shit. You take it from fun racing smack talk to personal below the belt insults.

[wbt]

didn't get to meet you last night, but your car was a monster, hope to see you in october at our Camaro vs Mustang event in Ennis.


Thanks!

I may just do that. I might be able to talk kdanner into bringing his car as well. Good times. :)

[TrueStreetMotorSports.com]

There is never any relief here.....:snoopfacepalm:

[BLK2012GT]

Comments like this is why people jump your shit. You take it from fun racing smack talk to personal below the belt insults.

Well that's all he's been doing is riding Brent so damn hard. Doesn't take in consideration that Brent has a shit ton more runs then I have so he has WAY more seat time. Do I think I can take Brent on the street right now I think so. At the track I knew I wasn't going to beat him my first time out. I mean a great driver like Clint couldn't get a good 60ft time and run mid 11's like Brent does.

[Yagermeister]

Jeff, you keep using the excuse of seat time but guess what...a Really experienced driver drove your slow a$$ car too and barely got into the 11s.

X275 power adder cars are only allowed a 275/60/15 Drag Radial so please don't use the "my tires aren't big enough" excuse if their tire works for 1000+ hp

[OG Fox]

Still sucking Brent's dick I see. I guess I would to driving around in that car you have.

which car would that be Jeff? it might be slow, but it would have beat you on 2 of your runs last night.

Comments like this is why people jump your shit. You take it from fun racing smack talk to personal blow the belt insults.

its not a big deal, his car isn't faster than my old bolt on coyote.

Thanks!

I may just do that. I might be able to talk kdanner into bringing his car as well. Good times. :)

awesome! can't wait.

[BLK2012GT]

Jeff, you keep using the excuse of seat time but guess what...a Really experienced driver drove your slow a$$ car too and barely got into the 11s.

X275 power adder cars are only allowed a 275/60/15 Drag Radial so please don't use the "my tires aren't big enough" excuse if their tire works for 1000+ hp

Yeah cause cutting 1.9 60ft is really running on great tires. I mean someone that is John force on dfw5.0 should know that.

[BLK2012GT]

which car would that be Jeff? it might be slow, but it would have beat you on 2 of your runs last night.



its not a big deal, his car isn't faster than my old bolt on coyote.



awesome! can't wait.

But see I still have my car and not plan on getting rid of it for any reasons.

[Yagermeister]

Jeff says Dale listening to Brent too much while riding Clint

Jeff = pot calling kettle black

[OG Fox]

Yeah cause cutting 1.9 60ft is really running on great tires. I mean someone that is John force on dfw5.0 should know that.

should have opted for the 15 inch wheels instead of trying to make your car look cute or maybe you should just learn how to drive. and also, Brent is my good friend, I raced with him every weekend last year and I know what he is capable of. At the same time your car was in the shop and you were on the keyboard talking about how fast your car was gonna be when you got it back. now that you got it you can't even break 12s. Congrats jeff!!! hope that money was well spent.

[BLK2012GT]

should have opted for the 15 inch wheels instead of trying to make your car look cute or maybe you should just learn how to drive. and also, Brent is my good friend, I raced with him every weekend last year and I know what he is capable of. At the same time your car was in the shop and you were on the keyboard talking about how fast your car was gonna be when you got it back. now that you got it you can't even break 12s. Congrats jeff!!! hope that money was well spent.

Wonder why I call you guys fucking idiots. MY FIRST TIME DOWN THE TRACK WITH THE CAR AND MYSELF IN 10 YEARS. NOT ONCE DID I SAY I WAS GOING TO BEAT BRENTS TIME MY FIRST TIME OUT.

[BLK2012GT]

Jeff says Dale listening to Brent too much while riding Clint

Jeff = pot calling kettle black

How am I riding Clint. I said he is a great driver and couldn't cut a great 60ft time either. I'm not all over him like Dale is with you.

[OG Fox]

Wonder why I call you guys fucking idiots. MY FIRST TIME DOWN THE TRACK WITH THE CAR AND MYSELF IN 10 YEARS. NOT ONCE DID I SAY I WAS GOING TO BEAT BRENTS TIME MY FIRST TIME OUT.

finally, he back tracks. can't wait to post your video! :owned:

[BLK2012GT]

finally, he back tracks. can't wait to post your video! :owned:

I'll race Brent on the hwy. I mean that's all you guys do anyways. You guys don't live at the track or go every other weekend. But Brent won't race on the hwy.

[kdanner]

Let's see a slip. You keep talking about that 60', with 525RWHP the splits from at least 330' on should be awesome, but are they?

[BLK2012GT]

Let's see a slip. You keep talking about that 60', with 525RWHP the splits from at least 330' on should be awesome, but are they?

My 60ft was 2.0 don't know what the 330 mark was.

[Yagermeister]

Maybe those 500+ hp dyno numbers aren't very real as it seems your mph is quite low for all that horsepower. Maybe try tuning your car at the track like wbt, kdanner, me or Dale...all have been faster than your dyno queen with less horsepower...a lot less horsepower. Ask wbt and kdanner what suspension they used...oh wait damn near stock so don't use the suspension excuse either.

Excuses Jeff can't use:
1. Driver - Clint drove it too and he knows how to drive
2. Tires - x275 PA guys use 275/60/15 so he doesn't need bigger tires
3. Suspension - wbt has gone 10.87 with near stock suspension
4. Track prep - wbt went 10's the same night at the same track as Jeff
5. Trans - Jeff wanted a stick shift so if you miss a shift...it was your choice
6. Weight - autos weigh more, your base weighs less than most others

[BLK2012GT]

Maybe those 500+ dyno numbers aren't very real as it seems your mph is quite low for all that horsepower. Maybe try tuning your car at the track like wbt, kdanner, me or Dale...all have been faster than your dyno queen with less horsepower...a lot less horsepower. Ask wbt and kdanner what suspension they used...oh wait damn near stock so don't use the suspension excuse either.

Excuses Jeff can't use:
1. Driver - Clint drove it too and he knows how to drive
2. Tires - x275 PA guys use 275/60/15 so he doesn't need bigger tires
3. Suspension - wbt has gone 10.87 with near stock suspension
4. Track prep - wbt went 10's the same night at the same track as Jeff
5. Trans - Jeff wanted a stick shift so if you miss a shift...it was your choice
6. Weight - autos weigh more, your base weighs less than most others

My car weighs 3873 without me in it. So does it weigh less. And I was running on NTO5R. Not exactly the best drag radial like what the X275 guys use. And I'm not the only one that says the track prep wasn't all that great. The guys with slicks they were cutting decent 60 ft times like 1.5 but hell that's what most should do on drag radials.

[Midnight11]

I got the beer and the popcorn

[BLK2012GT]

I got the beer and the popcorn

Shit I've been drinking since I got back home. This is amusing and fun. Some of these guys act llke this is life. Pretty sad.

[Bearded Banger]

Cross Talk beat that shit up and down

[Midnight11]

Shit I've been drinking since I got back home. This is amusing and fun. Some of these guys act llke this is life. Pretty sad.

It seems like that is you. You are the one getting defensive and throwing insults

[OG Fox]

My car weighs 3873 without me in it. So does it weigh less. And I was running on NTO5R. Not exactly the best drag radial like what the X275 guys use. And I'm not the only one that says the track prep wasn't all that great. The guys with slicks they were cutting decent 60 ft times like 1.5 but hell that's what most should do on drag radials.

who bought the tires for your car? and who was complaining about track prep other than you?

[Yagermeister]

Post your time slip Jeff

[BLK2012GT]

It seems like that is you. You are the one getting defensive and throwing insults

All in fun. I'm watching beerfest and doing this. It's a sunday night so its kinda boring.

[wbt]

My car weighs 3873 without me in it. So does it weigh less. And I was running on NTO5R. Not exactly the best drag radial like what the X275 guys use. And I'm not the only one that says the track prep wasn't all that great. The guys with slicks they were cutting decent 60 ft times like 1.5 but hell that's what most should do on drag radials.

I was running 275/60/15 drag radials and cutting 1.5 60' times all night. That is one of the best track surfaces I have run on anywhere.

[BLK2012GT]

Post your time slip Jeff

Why everyone saw what I ran. My best was a 12.3 at 117 mph with a 2.0 60ft

[BLK2012GT]

I was running 275/60/15 drag radials and cutting 1.5 60' times all night. That is one of the best track surfaces I have run on anywhere.

Well you're the only one I've seen that said that. But I'm just going off what I heard from people last night that was racing and on a different mustang website that race too. So I guess they were wrong. My bad.

[kdanner]

Wait a minute. This is a manual base GT? I don't care if it is 100% untouched with stock wheels/tires and all, that car doesn't even weigh 3600 without driver. Get a new scale.

Why are you running a radial tire, any radial tire, on a stick car, then complaining it won't hook? You put the wrong tire on!

Here's the splits needed to go 10.80s from a 1.55 60':

60-330 2.9409
60-660 5.4026
60-1000 7.5251
60-1320 9.319
330-660 2.4617
330-1000 4.5842
330-1320 6.3781
660-1000 2.1225
660-1320 3.9164
1000-1320 1.7939


Splits for sticks are quicker than that down low, automatics get to take advantage of a radial tire and are quicker downtrack. You've got at least 75 more RWHP according to you, so you should absolutely slaughter every single one of those numbers. So let's see em.

[OG Fox]

Cross Talk beat that shit up and down

wish we had a like button on the boards.

[wbt]

Well you're the only one I've seen that said that. But I'm just going off what I heard from people last night that was racing and on a different mustang website that race too. So I guess they were wrong. My bad.

You must be spoiled and never run on a really shitty track. Come down this way and I can point you directly to several. You will start realizing how good last night's track really was.

[OG Fox]

Wait a minute. This is a manual base GT? I don't care if it is 100% untouched with stock wheels/tires and all, that car doesn't even weigh 3600 without driver. Get a new scale.

Why are you running a radial tire, any radial tire, on a stick car, then complaining it won't hook? You put the wrong tire on!

Here's the splits needed to go 10.80s from a 1.55 60':

60-330 2.9409
60-660 5.4026
60-1000 7.5251
60-1320 9.319
330-660 2.4617
330-1000 4.5842
330-1320 6.3781
660-1000 2.1225
660-1320 3.9164
1000-1320 1.7939


Splits for sticks are quicker than that down low, automatics get to take advantage of a radial tire and are quicker downtrack. You've got at least 75 more RWHP according to you, so you should absolutely slaughter every single one of those numbers. So let's see em.

i feel like im in science class.

[kdanner]

i feel like im in science class.

LOL. I try to be scientific. I'm known to say "If you don't have data, you're a loser". That is a true statement in more than one way.

[Bearded Banger]

Wait a minute. This is a manual base GT? I don't care if it is 100% untouched with stock wheels/tires and all, that car doesn't even weigh 3600 without driver. Get a new scale.

Why are you running a radial tire, any radial tire, on a stick car, then complaining it won't hook? You put the wrong tire on!

Here's the splits needed to go 10.80s from a 1.55 60':

60-3302.9409
60-6605.4026
60-10007.5251
60-13209.319
330-6602.4617
330-10004.5842
330-13206.3781
660-10002.1225
660-13203.9164
1000-13201.7939


Splits for sticks are quicker than that down low, automatics get to take advantage of a radial tire and are quicker downtrack. You've got at least 75 more RWHP according to you, so you should absolutely slaughter every single one of those numbers. So let's see em.

Ill choose answer C.

[BLK2012GT]

Ill choose answer C.

"Summer School"
C
C
C
C
C
C
C
C

[Grandpa]

Why everyone saw what I ran. My best was a 12.3 at 117 mph with a 2.0 60ft

I'm pretty sure you went 114 and Clint went 119. Dale has the video so I'm sure we will find out for sure.

[TrueStreetMotorSports.com]

Jeff, you keep using the excuse of seat time but guess what...a Really experienced driver drove your slow a$$ car too and barely got into the 11s.

X275 power adder cars are only allowed a 275/60/15 Drag Radial so please don't use the "my tires aren't big enough" excuse if their tire works for 1000+ hp

Sorry Brent but this is a uneducated post, drag radials and a stick do not equal good 60ft times. Yes cars with 1200+ make them work but these cars have timers to apply power very smoothly and with a automatic it also have a degree of slip with converter. We also have the ablitly to kill timing on shifts, kill timng at rpms we are havign isues with trackion, kill timing on shifts, ramp timing in/out ect. So to compair Jeff's 6 speed Manuel to a automatic 1200hp drag radial car is not a fair comparison.

Jeff's car also does not have drag radials, his tires are more of a road race tire than a drag radial. Not good for dead stops,

A stock 5.0 on stock tires, a tune, and auto will run 12.33@114. Easy to drive and not to hard to put into drive and let it shift its way down the track. We did this in my wife's car at full weight 100% stock with nothing but our tune up in it.

A Manuel will take seat time, does not matter how much seat time i have in my drag radial car. This car has to be revved very high to make power with cams, ported heads and a small motor.

Reving a car to 5,000rpms and expected it to hook well on a tire that is a little better than a true street tire is just silly and I told Jeff this. Trying to run the car in these is silly and a waste of time if you are truly looking for performance.

So let's break down the slip that his car ran

11.8
60ft 1.91

Put slicks on and adjust that 60ft, every 100th on the 60ft is worth 200th on the other end (1/4 mile racing)

60ft 1.60
11.2 in same air.....

Not a record by any means but still a fast street car none the less

I witness some pretty bad driving last night by some and I witness some pretty awesome driving by others. It takes time to learn a car and know what it needs. Everyone should pull together and enjoy this hobby, all this shit talking is getting very old and will run off members if it continues. No one like to fight

Jeff you are going to have to take some poking after last night. It just comes with it, you need to go out with the right tire, practice practice practice till you are happy with your times and then make your call outs. Till then I would not make any call outs, shit talking , fights about what the car should do. JUST GO OUT AND LEARN YOUR CAR!!!

My 2 cents

[Yagermeister]

Just post the two little pieces of paper already

[BLK2012GT]

I'm pretty sure you went 114 and Clint went 119. Dale has the video so I'm sure we will find out for sure.

Sent you a text Foo

[BLK2012GT]

Just post the two little pieces of paper already

For what purpose Brent?

[Yagermeister]

My uneducated post was simply to explain to Jeff that MANY other people of all sorts of power levels use small drag radial tires, True Street classes too, so the requirement of a slick is null and void.

Where's the time slips so we can compare the splits?

[TrueStreetMotorSports.com]

My uneducated post was simply to explain to Jeff that MANY other people of all sorts of power levels use small drag radial tires, True Street classes too, so the requirement of a slick is null and void.

Where's the time slips so we can compare the splits?

Again not correct,

You put your car in drive and let your tuner do all your shifting for you in your auto. A stick takes much more to make it work, (I drive a auto too)

Autos = drag radial
Manuel = slick

Promise this is not a pissing match but this is true

[Grandpa]

Sent you a text Foo

Ok, I stand corrected. Jeff went 117. Not bad at all.

[Yagermeister]

I'd throw myself over a cliff if I spent as much money as Jeff did to get an 11.8 no traction or 11.2 with traction out of my car NA when others have gone faster with a lot less (wbt, kdanner, CasperGT, shaun@aed, 04compgt, me) all stock heads and cams and internals.

With 520+ HP he should be mile per houring at 130 or better even if he is spinning.

[BLK2012GT]

My uneducated post was simply to explain to Jeff that MANY other people of all sorts of power levels use small drag radial tires, True Street classes too, so the requirement of a slick is null and void.

Where's the time slips so we can compare the splits?

I wasn't happy with the times so I just threw away the slips. Sorry.

[TrueStreetMotorSports.com]

My uneducated post was simply to explain to Jeff that MANY other people of all sorts of power levels use small drag radial tires, True Street classes too, so the requirement of a slick is null and void.

Where's the time slips so we can compare the splits?

Retread my long post......it takes a lot of tuning for us to get a 1200rwhp car down the track with a 275 drag radial. Not just floor it and hope the track is there

[Yagermeister]

I know autos need drs and manuals need slicks...but how do all the manual True Street guys get down the track since they can't run slicks?

[kdanner]

I wasn't happy with the times so I just threw away the slips. Sorry.

Dude that's valuable data, don't ever throw those away. You need that for comparison later to see where you improved, where you didn't.

[Yagermeister]

So Jeff you have no data to learn from the next time you go to the track? Keep them next time :-)

[kdanner]

I know autos need drs and manuals need slicks...but how do all the manual True Street guys get down the track since they can't run slicks?


DOT bias is what I'd be on.

[Yagermeister]

Kdanner types faster...

[Grandpa]

Again not correct,

You put your car in drive and let your tuner do all your shifting for you in your auto. A stick takes much more to make it work, (I drive a auto too)

Autos = drag radial
Manuel = slick

Promise this is not a pissing match but this is true

I agree. To add to that an auto car doesn't shock the tires as much as a stick car does either. Depending on how badly the car transfers weight it can shock the tires a few times in one pass and never really get settled going down the track. With an auto, the weight is always on the rear axle.

[Yagermeister]

See you all later this week...going to bed now to wake up to start the drive down from Detroit back to Dallas at 5am CST

[BLK2012GT]

Dude that's valuable data, don't ever throw those away. You need that for comparison later to see where you improved, where you didn't.

Yeah but that was my first time out. I need to learn the basics all over again like I used to back in the early 2000's. I had a 2000 GT with bolt ons and 100 shot and I was turning 1.6 60ft with nittos DR and running 11.7 at 117 mph but I was at the track every weekend. That's before I took over my company, had kids, and a wife. Don't have the free time anymore but I'm gonna go as much as I can right now.

So I don't see the point of keeping them right now when I need to learn how to drive this car all over again at the track.

[Bearded Banger]

I like nachos! All 3 of them!

[BLK2012GT]

See you all later this week...going to bed now to wake up to start the drive down from Detroit back to Dallas at 5am CST

Be safe Dad.

[Yagermeister]

Dad says "Jeff, listen to kdanner and wbt more often and faster you will go!"

[BLK2012GT]

I'd throw myself over a cliff if I spent as much money as Jeff did to get an 11.8 no traction or 11.2 with traction out of my car NA when others have gone faster with a lot less (wbt, kdanner, CasperGT, shaun@aed, 04compgt, me) all stock heads and cams and internals.

With 520+ HP he should be mile per houring at 130 or better even if he is spinning.

Jesus Christ it's my first time at the track with this car. How many times do I need to say that. I'm sure it will go faster with more time behind the wheel. And also that doesn't make sense for that MPH for my car. I mean there were SC cars making a lot more hp then me running slower then 130 mph.

[TrueStreetMotorSports.com]

I'd throw myself over a cliff if I spent as much money as Jeff did to get an 11.8 no traction or 11.2 with traction out of my car NA when others have gone faster with a lot less (wbt, kdanner, CasperGT, shaun@aed, 04compgt, me) all stock heads and cams and internals.

With 520+ HP he should be mile per houring at 130 or better even if he is spinning.

Lol.....apples to oranges again smarty pants.....

Jeff's car is not a drag car, not set up for it, has all the interior in it ect.....

Wbt and me visited for a bit last night and seems to know his stuff pretty well. He know how to prep his car for the track, one light weigh seat, no interior, true big and little wheels, proper tires for his set up. This is just what I seen by walking by his car. Seem to know his car and what it took to make it preform

Jeff's does not know his car, does not have proper suspension for what he was doing last night, needs to Lear how to drive the car better, pull unnessiary weight for track, put proper wheel and tires ect.....

But Jeff only needs to do this if he is trying to see the peak performance in drag racing. If he is going to fight with you guys all the time then he needs to make the car track ready before going to the track. But to compair how much tie. You have, and the other cars listed I'm sure there times they are running now are not the times they ran there first time to the track.

[BLK2012GT]

Lol.....apples to oranges again smarty pants.....

Jeff's car is not a drag car, not set up for it, has all the interior in it ect.....

Wbt and me visited for a bit last night and seems to know his stuff pretty well. He know how to prep his car for the track, one light weigh seat, no interior, true big and little wheels, proper tires for his set up. This is just what I seen by walking by his car. Seem to know his car and what it took to make it preform

Jeff's does not know his car, does not have proper suspension for what he was doing last night, needs to Lear how to drive the car better, pull unnessiary weight for track, put proper wheel and tires ect.....

But Jeff only needs to do this if he is trying to see the peak performance in drag racing. If he is going to fight with you guys all the time then he needs to make the car track ready before going to the track. But to compair how much tie. You have, and the other cars listed I'm sure there times they are running now are not the times they ran there first time to the track.

You guys already gave me the car I've always wanted. I wanted a 500 rwhp NA with a big shot of nitrous. Now I have it I need to decide what I want to do with it. Right now I want it to be a full street car but will run decent at the track. I don't need a race car setup like Brent and WBT with the perfect suspension and shit taken out. I just want to have fun with it on the street. Cause right now we don't know what suspension I need cause I haven't used the nitrous yet at the track.

[TrueStreetMotorSports.com]

I agree. To add to that an auto car doesn't shock the tires as much as a stick car does either. Depending on how badly the car transfers weight it can shock the tires a few times in one pass and never really get settled going down the track. With an auto, the weight is always on the rear axle.

Applying power smoothly is the key, launching in a window of 200rpms Jeff's car will either bog or spin. There is not much driving to be had with as little torque that these motors make. Slicks will help but Jeff will have to decide if he wants to set the car up for racing or just settle for what ever the car runs with traction,

[TrueStreetMotorSports.com]

You guys already gave me the car I've always wanted. I wanted a 500 rwhp NA with a big shot of nitrous. Now I have it I need to decide what I want to do with it. Right now I want it to be a full street car but will run decent at the track. I don't need a race car setup like Brent and WBT with the perfect suspension and shit taken out. I just want to have fun with it on the street. Cause right now we don't know what suspension I need cause I haven't used the nitrous yet at the track.

I would not say there cars are drag cars because there not. What I meant was they do what is needed to run there best by removing weight for the track and then putting it back when the car is ready for street duty.

[blownaltered]

I'm not one to really stick up for Jeff since he did talk massive shit before last night so he had some of this coming. But are some of you guys really comparing autos stalled cars with no seats that go to the track every weekend to a guy with a full weight car with a new combo and also his first time to the track with it., let not forget a stick.

[Grandpa]

You guys already gave me the car I've always wanted. I wanted a 500 rwhp NA with a big shot of nitrous. Now I have it I need to decide what I want to do with it. Right now I want it to be a full street car but will run decent at the track. I don't need a race car setup like Brent and WBT with the perfect suspension and shit taken out. I just want to have fun with it on the street. Cause right now we don't know what suspension I need cause I haven't used the nitrous yet at the track.

I'm nervous for you when you finally hit that bottle. That thing is going to be scary going down the track. You better bring an extra pair of shorts! haha.

[BLK2012GT]

I would not say there cars are drag cars because there not. What I meant was they do what is needed to run there best by removing weight for the track and then putting it back when the car is ready for street duty.

Ok I'm not saying they are "fully" drag cars either but they are more of a drag car then my fully street car.

[BLK2012GT]

I'm not one to really stick up for Jeff since he did talk massive shit before last night so he had some of this coming. But are some of you guys really comparing autos stalled cars with no seats that go to the track every weekend to a guy with a full weight car with a new combo and also his first time to the track with it., let not forget a stick.

Exactly and not once did I say I was going to run great time my FIRST time to the track with it. I said I was going to be really rusty and would need practice. So I wasn't expecting much last night. And with what happen to Don's car I even surprise myself that I ran last night cause that there made me really nervous.

[TrueStreetMotorSports.com]

With 520+ HP he should be mile per houring at 130 or better even if he is spinning.

To say his car should run 130+ is also uneducated.....

I have a Honda that hangs around our shop that makes 498fwhp... It traps 140mph in the 1/4 mile..... How do you figure that?

Well I will tell you, power to weight is everything in drag racing. Jeff claims his car weighs over 3850 with out him in the car. That would make it over 4000lb with him in the car going down the track. Weight will kill mph.....

My fox body back in the day made 400rwhp (1996) weighed 3196 with me in it and traped 128.8mph.

You have to quit taking the times the fast guys on the Internet are runing and thinking that a little higher dyno number should make a heavy car not set up to track with a new driver should run with the educated and prepared racer. Raw power will not over come weight and set up

[kdanner]

You have got to be kidding me. There's the no interior BS again. Hello? What are you going to do with a rear seat when you have a roll bar? Yes the passenger seat is pulled, nobody else does that? Yes when at the track it has a far safer driver seat in it to properly accommodate the harness, nobody else does that?

Everyone knows the back seat doesn't weigh shit. The passenger seat is around 45lbs. That driver seat saves about 20lbs. Then there's the part no one seems to want to talk about, the weight added right back in from all the safety equipment, that car is 100% legal to 10 flat. That car is no lighter than it would be with the stock seats present and the aftermarket shit not present.

[BLK2012GT]

You have got to be kidding me. There's the no interior BS again. Hello? What are you going to do with a rear seat when you have a roll bar? Yes the passenger seat is pulled, nobody else does that? Yes when at the track it has a far safer driver seat in it to properly accommodate the harness, nobody else does that?

Everyone knows the back seat doesn't weigh shit. The passenger seat is around 45lbs. That driver seat saves about 20lbs. Then there's the part no one seems to want to talk about, the weight added right back in from all the safety equipment, that car is 100% legal to 10 flat. That car is no lighter than it would be with the stock seats present and the aftermarket shit not present.

Not planning on putting a roll bar or cage in my car as of right now. Plan on racing and driving it as is. Not even taking anyting out of the trunk.

[wbt]

Wbt and me visited for a bit last night and seems to know his stuff pretty well. He know how to prep his car for the track, one light weigh seat, no interior, true big and little wheels, proper tires for his set up. This is just what I seen by walking by his car. Seem to know his car and what it took to make it preform



The difference in knowing your car and not is doing all your own work vs. paying someone else to do it for you. Also having experience racing and knowing how to put a good combination of parts together helps.

One that that floors me is how much money people waste on bright shiny objects. Just to name a few:

MMR head cooling mod
CAI's
Intake manifold heat shields
Any JLT product
...the list goes on.

I didn't run 10's the first time out with my car but I did run 11's with a tune, tires/wheels and the passenger seat removed. The car was bone stock down to the mufflers outside of those changes:
QON4fQ6jm4E

As my car sits, the only change I make to it between street and track are wheels/tires and I put the radio antenna back on. That's it. I use the same tune and everything else to drive with on the street.
http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu48/wbthurber/2012%20Mustang%20GT/IMG047.jpg (http://s632.photobucket.com/user/wbthurber/media/2012%20Mustang%20GT/IMG047.jpg.html)

For the car being gutted, I addressed that in this post: http://www.dfw50s.com/showpost.php?p=45629&postcount=299

I know you are not being confrontational but wanted to clear a few things up. :waytogo:

Thanks for stopping by to chat last night.

[wbt]

Not planning on putting a roll bar or cage in my car as of right now. Plan on racing and driving it as is. Not even taking anyting out of the trunk.

I think if you are going to be successful at the track and meet the goals you have set you will have to change your train of thought about this.

[BLK2012GT]

I think if you are going to be successful at the track and meet the goals you have set you will have to change your train of thought about this.

More seat time and slicks I'm sure I can get close to my goals. Like I said I'm not trying to set or break any records.

[Oxford14Stang]

Why everyone saw what I ran. My best was a 12.3 at 117 mph with a 2.0 60ft

I did a 13.2 @ 113 with a 2.1 60' so don't feel too bad

[DirtyD]

For Christ's sake....my head hurt now.

wbt, why did you mention the JLT products? They have been proven to perform, of course with the addition of a tune. I know the stock airbox is a damn good piece on these cars, but can you explain? I'm actually curious.

[OG Fox]

More seat time and slicks I'm sure I can get close to my goals. Like I said I'm not trying to set or break any records.

no shit. http://www.dfw50s.com/showthread.php?t=2472

[kdanner]

For Christ's sake....my head hurt now.

wbt, why did you mention the JLT products? They have been proven to perform, of course with the addition of a tune. I know the stock airbox is a damn good piece on these cars, but can you explain? I'm actually curious.

I did calibrations for him to test and log stock, Airaid, Steeda, Roush, & the Brand J. No changes except the MAF transfer function between them. That's the only thing that should be changed, anything else and you're band-aiding a hardware problem in the calibration, which I won't do. All performed properly except the Brand J. It had a very noisy MAF signal, and this threw the shifts/locks way off causing the car to hit the limiter. This means the airflow is very non-laminar in comparison to the other products. Jay's response was that the filter wasn't positioned right. It did the same no matter where it was positioned. I commented that the tube should have a raised filter stop to properly locate the filter like every other brand does, Jay told me I didn't know what I was doing and that he would not revise his product. Guess what, he has since made exactly that change. Many others have mentioned not shifting and hitting the limiter, or idle surges, both of which can be caused by noisy MAF signal. Jay denies the existence of all these people and likes to say that only 2 guys in Texas have a problem with his product. So that is why neither of us will use or recommend any product Jay sells. Lately he is on a rant making videos about SHR, guy thinks he invented the aluminum can or something, he appears to be about half nuts.

[wbt]

For Christ's sake....my head hurt now.

wbt, why did you mention the JLT products? They have been proven to perform, of course with the addition of a tune. I know the stock airbox is a damn good piece on these cars, but can you explain? I'm actually curious.

Sure that is easy.

1. Their CAI design on the 2011+ cars is flawed.
2. Their catch cans have issues with fittings breaking.
3. The company owner has such a large ego he refuses to admit when his products have issues yet he is willing to make video's about other vendors ripping him off.

Our CAI testing:
http://www.modularfords.com/threads/185310-CAIs-and-MAF-signal-quality

Catch can issues:
http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/svt-shelby-gt500-150/836838-jlt-oil-catch-can-broken-again.html
http://forums.themustangsource.com/f800/jlt-oil-seperator-issue-521192/
...plenty more out there.

His video's:
1j0Qyq6NOXw
This video showed/proved nothing.

0bC_RdHXKhU

....and much more going on behind the scenes that isn't as public. For me that says everything. If others are happy running his products that is their prerogative. That's my opinion.

[BLK2012GT]

Damn

[Junkie]

Wow...all that shit talk and the car/driver only accomplished those times. I honestly did expect faster.

A stick car is going to do MUCH MUCH better on a slick. Get a good set of wheels/tires and go get some seat time. Don't waste the part wear and tear on crappy passes. Go out and just 60ft the car one time until you get happy there. Then move out to 330' once that's nailed move on.

Also if people being around make you nervous. Get a few guys together and rent Denton, also take your tuner with you.

It does seem like to me some MPH/power is missing or something is wrong. I know my CTS-V which is 4610lbs with me in it, on small drag radials out MPH'd that with similar power. Bone stock on stock tires we went 117mph. 441rwhp

[DirtyD]

I haven't had any issues with my catch can from JLT, but I simply take it off, empty/check it, and out it back on, and my car sees daily duty.

As for the CAI, I have only been running his carbon fiber version for a week now. Currently running a preloaded SCT tune (I know I know, but let's not get into that) and all seems to be fairly fine so far. I will say that having that raised lip on the end of the tune does help you will getting the proper filter location, but I think he could've gone with a slightly different design to obtain a cleaner flower of air into the tube through the filter, such as some type of Venturi insert or something.

I will disagree however on catch can copying by SHR. Their product clearly came on to the market after his catch can, when he was supplying Shelby with his products, and I don't think it's just a coincidence. But he should have taken the measures to protect his design. There are many ways to design something with the same objective. He was just coming up with his own product, not claiming to have invented it.

These are my opinions though. No bias on my part, just many hours of research, opinion reading, thinking, and more thinking. All of my JLT parts were purchased used from other Mustang owners. The only thing I have purchased from him directly were hood struts. Lol

[BLK2012GT]

Wow...all that shit talk and the car/driver only accomplished those times. I honestly did expect faster.

A stick car is going to do MUCH MUCH better on a slick. Get a good set of wheels/tires and go get some seat time. Don't waste the part wear and tear on crappy passes. Go out and just 60ft the car one time until you get happy there. Then move out to 330' once that's nailed move on.

Also if people being around make you nervous. Get a few guys together and rent Denton, also take your tuner with you.

It does seem like to me some MPH/power is missing or something is wrong. I know my CTS-V which is 4610lbs with me in it, on small drag radials out MPH'd that with similar power. Bone stock on stock tires we went 117mph. 441rwhp

Having the guys around didn't make me nervous. Me not doing it in 10 plus years Plus seeing all the mustang wiggle in the 1-2 shifts.

[wbt]

I haven't had any issues with my catch can from JLT, but I simply take it off, empty/check it, and out it back on, and my car sees daily duty.

As for the CAI, I have only been running his carbon fiber version for a week now. Currently running a preloaded SCT tune (I know I know, but let's not get into that) and all seems to be fairly fine so far. I will say that having that raised lip on the end of the tune does help you will getting the proper filter location, but I think he could've gone with a slightly different design to obtain a cleaner flower of air into the tube through the filter, such as some type of Venturi insert or something.

I will disagree however on catch can copying by SHR. Their product clearly came on to the market after his catch can, when he was supplying Shelby with his products, and I don't think it's just a coincidence. But he should have taken the measures to protect his design. There are many ways to design something with the same objective. He was just coming up with his own product, not claiming to have invented it.

These are my opinions though. No bias on my part, just many hours of research, opinion reading, thinking, and more thinking. All of my JLT parts were purchased used from other Mustang owners. The only thing I have purchased from him directly were hood struts. Lol

...and there is nothing wrong with that. If you are happy that's really all that matters.

For me, I still can't sell the JLT intake I purchased and did the testing with. I suppose the results produced sort of shot the re-sell value to Hell. :)

I may be able to give it away to someone next weekend. We'll see.

[Oxford14Stang]

...and there is nothing wrong with that. If you are happy that's really all that matters.

For me, I still can't sell the JLT intake I purchased and did the testing with. I suppose the results produced sort of shot the re-sell value to Hell. :)

I may be able to give it away to someone next weekend. We'll see.

A little confused my friend. I saw the graphs and watched both videos. I have the jlt oil sep. and have checked it here and there, it's been on my car maybe 3,000 miles now, I have 8,800 on the car now. Back to your graphs and comparisons. Based on what your signals were reading that'd effect only shifts? Or would it effect horsepower as well? Also, because of those testing are you running your stock cai?

[BLK2012GT]

When did this thread turn into a tech thread?

[Oxford14Stang]

When did this thread turn into a tech thread?

I'm sorry.... Jeff are you are the call out wait list yet?

[OG Fox]

A little confused my friend. I saw the graphs and watched both videos. I have the jlt oil sep. and have checked it here and there, it's been on my car maybe 3,000 miles now, I have 8,800 on the car now. Back to your graphs and comparisons. Based on what your signals were reading that'd effect only shifts? Or would it effect horsepower as well? Also, because of those testing are you running your stock cai?

i know brent had issues with the jlt cai on his auto as well. its not very good. personally i like the c&l but from what i've heard the stock box is just fine.

[BLK2012GT]

I'm sorry.... Jeff are you are the call out wait list yet?

Nope don't need to be. I already beat the number two and three guy.

[Oxford14Stang]

i know brent had issues with the jlt cai on his auto as well. its not very good. personally i like the c&l but from what i've heard the stock box is just fine.

Yeah, I've heard many people, time after time, mention the stock boxes performed very well. And "pointless" to replace it. I just figured an open air filter could squeeze more air in, may not be the coolest air but more air and based on that video I watched his gauges showed and he said the open air filters cool off quicker than the already great stock cai

[Oxford14Stang]

Nope don't need to be. I already beat the number two and three guy.

Ah, gotcha. I'm sitting around waiting for Rebelracer to run number 10 spot, than knock everyone off the list. Them top 3 guys are gonna have to watch out, rebelracer from the small town of Sanger is coming for them.

[Grandpa]

Nope don't need to be. I already beat the number two and three guy.

jVfkYZmXHAg

[DirtyD]

...and there is nothing wrong with that. If you are happy that's really all that matters.

For me, I still can't sell the JLT intake I purchased and did the testing with. I suppose the results produced sort of shot the re-sell value to Hell. :)

I may be able to give it away to someone next weekend. We'll see.

So is the intake you have one of the first production ones? Before any revisions and what not? If so, I'm sure that make be part of it. You'd think someone on Craigslist would be on it. Haha

I do like the stock box, especially the fact it's a closed element design to help negate any effect from under hood temps on the IATs. I just don't like the accordion style couples and tube they use on it because I would imagine the interference in airflow that would cause. Why not just make a straight flow through tube from the factory and be done?...

[BLK2012GT]

jVfkYZmXHAg

I'm not going to participate in the top ten. Just pointing out I already beat two of the top 3 so far.

And I love how that gtg last night was supposed to settle some grudge matches yet no one is talking about them. Seems like I'm the hot topic of the night.

[Grandpa]

I'm not going to participate in the top ten. Just pointing out I already beat two of the top 3 so far.

And I love how that gtg last night was supposed to settle some grudge matches yet no one is talking about them. Seems like I'm the hot topic of the night.

It's my understanding #10 was not there and a lot of people wanting to get on the list couldn't do so. I know Dark Pony was trying to set up some races to move up the list but I don't know what came of it.

[DirtyD]

And I love how that gtg last night was supposed to settle some grudge matches yet no one is talking about them. Seems like I'm the hot topic of the night.

Ant, Jalal, and myself decided to forgo ours because we were trying to figure out our consistency. That was my first time ever at a track drag racing. That was Jalal's first at a 1/4. And I think Ant was having to sort out a few things.

I definitely have some things to learn and practice.

[DirtyD]

It's my understanding #10 was not there and a lot of people wanting to get on the list couldn't do so. I know Dark Pony was trying to set up some races to move up the list but I don't know what came of it.

John (GunsUp) was there but won't race at the track, only the street.

[Oxford14Stang]

Ant, Jalal, and myself decided to forgo ours because we were trying to figure out our consistency. That was my first time ever at a track drag racing. That was Jalal's first at a 1/4. And I think Ant was having to sort out a few things.

I definitely have some things to learn and practice.

I didn't know that lol. When talking to Ant we did one practice run by ourselves than we lined up and ran them, he missed third and I won, we did a cool off and than lined them back up and ran them again. Our R/T was almost identical I pulled second, and than he missed third again, and than missed fourth. Than he got a phone call saying he needed to be at work for sunday and than he packed up and left after that. But I was under the impression you were suppose to run loser of us but he had to take off.. again, I think, Ant and I had an official run. I have the slips, and my girl has both videos. but it doesn't matter lol. I'll run him again :evillol:

John (GunsUp) was there but won't race at the track, only the street.

only on the street? interesting :roflbow:

[DirtyD]

I didn't know that lol. When talking to Ant we did one practice run by ourselves than we lined up and ran them, he missed third and I won, we did a cool off and than lined them back up and ran them again. Our R/T was almost identical I pulled second, and than he missed third again, and than missed fourth. Than he got a phone call saying he needed to be at work for sunday and than he packed up and left after that. But I was under the impression you were suppose to run loser of us but he had to take off.. again, I think, Ant and I had an official run. I have the slips, and my girl has both videos. but it doesn't matter lol. I'll run him again :evillol:



only on the street? interesting :roflbow:

Ah, well it appears I am the misinformed one. Haha

I talked to Ant and he said he was figuring some things out. Plus I told him I wanted to get used to running down the track and he said that was cool and we could push it back to whenever. I didn't know that y'alls was official. Oh well, I'm sure I can hold off John for awhile.

[wbt]

A little confused my friend. I saw the graphs and watched both videos. I have the jlt oil sep. and have checked it here and there, it's been on my car maybe 3,000 miles now, I have 8,800 on the car now. Back to your graphs and comparisons. Based on what your signals were reading that'd effect only shifts? Or would it effect horsepower as well? Also, because of those testing are you running your stock cai?

If you know how to fit the stock airbox to the CJ intake manifold I am all ears. As is, I am using a custom Airaid setup where I modified a 2010 GT Airaid intake tube to mate to the GT500 TB and Airaid airbox.

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu48/wbthurber/2012%20Mustang%20GT/20130810_181620_zps2108827c.jpg (http://s632.photobucket.com/user/wbthurber/media/2012%20Mustang%20GT/20130810_181620_zps2108827c.jpg.html)

kdanner posted some of the technical finding from the testing: http://www.dfw50s.com/showpost.php?p=45782&postcount=404

Keep an eye on those JLT fittings. Eventually they will break if they are not the metal pieces.

Yeah, I've heard many people, time after time, mention the stock boxes performed very well. And "pointless" to replace it. I just figured an open air filter could squeeze more air in, may not be the coolest air but more air and based on that video I watched his gauges showed and he said the open air filters cool off quicker than the already great stock cai

We did back to back testing at the track between the stock airbox and the JLT. Both using the same tune minus the changes for the MAF transfer function. There was a .06 difference between the two. That falls within the margin of error. In a nutshell, buy an aftermarket CAI for looks/sound.

The video about IAT's prove nothing. What he doesn't discuss is that when using the stock intake, the IAT's sitting still in traffic will not increase nearly as fast vs. using an aftermarket CAI. We all live in Texas and know how hot it gets here. A DD car will fare much better with the stock intake.

Regarding dyno numbers, dyno'ing with the hood open will show an open air filter producing gains over stock but that is a false positive. The minute the hood closes those gains disappear. We drive our cars with the hood closed, not open.

So is the intake you have one of the first production ones? Before any revisions and what not? If so, I'm sure that make be part of it. You'd think someone on Craigslist would be on it. Haha

I do like the stock box, especially the fact it's a closed element design to help negate any effect from under hood temps on the IATs. I just don't like the accordion style couples and tube they use on it because I would imagine the interference in airflow that would cause. Why not just make a straight flow through tube from the factory and be done?...

It is one without the filter stop. The unit I have we tested with is what led the brand "j" owner to put a filter stop on his product.

[Oxford14Stang]

Ah, well it appears I am the misinformed on. Haha

I talked to Ant and he said he was figuring some things out. I didn't know that y'alls was official. Oh well, I'm sure I can hold off John for awhile.

Yeah, like I said I thought it was official. We were just getting in one practice run with each other. Like I said doesn't matter, Ant wouldn't lose his spot anyways. And when he calls me out again I'll run him again.

[Oxford14Stang]

Okay with that said let me ask you. You're running an open air filter, why is that? I'm running the Steeda. I'm just trying to figure out if the stock box performs better as far as hp gains and ET? if the stock box stays cooler I'd imagine we'd all see improved ETs If that's the case I don't see an open air filter dynoing out higher numbers after three pulls over the stock box??

[DirtyD]

If you know how to fit the stock airbox to the CJ intake manifold I am all ears. As is, I am using a custom Airaid setup where I modified a 2012 GT Airaid intake tube to mate to the GT500 TB and Airaid airbox.

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu48/wbthurber/2012%20Mustang%20GT/20130810_181620_zps2108827c.jpg (http://s632.photobucket.com/user/wbthurber/media/2012%20Mustang%20GT/20130810_181620_zps2108827c.jpg.html)

kdanner posted some of the technical finding from the testing: http://www.dfw50s.com/showpost.php?p=45782&postcount=404

Keep an eye on those JLT fittings. Eventually they will break if they are not the metal pieces.



We did back to back testing at the track between the stock airbox and the JLT. Both using the same tune minus the changes for the MAF transfer function. There was a .06 difference between the two. That falls within the margin of error. In a nutshell, buy an aftermarket CAI for looks/sound.

The video about IAT's prove nothing. What he doesn't discuss is that when using the stock intake, the IAT's sitting still in traffic will not increase nearly as fast vs. using an aftermarket CAI. We all live in Texas and know how hot it gets here. A DD car will fare much better with the stock intake.

Regarding dyno numbers, dyno'ing with the hood open will show an open air filter producing gains over stock but that is a false positive. The minute the hood closes those gains disappear. We drive our cars with the hood closed, not open.



It is one without the filter stop. The unit I have we tested with is what led the brand "j" owner to put a filter stop on his product.
See, that's what always makes it so hard to swallow about CAIs. Could they be effective? Yes, but not everyone wants to tune their vehicle to support them. I'm sure that a CAI would become beneficial with a matching diameter throttle body, but then you don't know how much the CAI is really doing.

I love the change in exhaust note that mine gave me, and it's a little extra insurance towards my goal of getting a legit 400 rwhp out of my car.

Thanks for the insight, wbt.

[DirtyD]

Okay with that said let me ask you. You're running an open air filter, why is that? I'm running the Steeda. I'm just trying to figure out if the stock box performs better as far as hp gains and ET? if the stock box stays cooler I'd imagine we'd all see improved ETs If that's the case I don't see an open air filter dynoing out higher numbers after three pulls over the stock box??

The stock box stays cooler long in standing traffic or idle situations. Both will perform about the same under moving airflow conditions.

[wbt]

Okay with that said let me ask you. You're running an open air filter, why is that? I'm running the Steeda. I'm just trying to figure out if the stock box performs better as far as hp gains and ET? if the stock box stays cooler I'd imagine we'd all see improved ETs If that's the case I don't see an open air filter dynoing out higher numbers after three pulls over the stock box??

I have no choice but to run an aftermarket CAI and I posted why.

Keep dyno's out of the discussion. As I mentioned, that is nothing more than a false positive when comparing CAI's.

Now on track times, the stock airbox will perform just as well as an aftermarket CAI.

Go back and re-read what I posted. It has the answers to everything you are asking again. ;)

[DirtyD]

I have no choice but to run an aftermarket CAI and I posted why.

Keep dyno's out of the discussion. As I mentioned, that is nothing more than a false positive when comparing CAI's.

Now on track times, the stock airbox will perform just as well as an aftermarket CAI.

Go back and re-read what I posted. It has the answers to everything you are asking again. ;)

I had always assumed the fact that most places that had the hood up for a dyno was just keeping the heat from being trapped under the hood since the car would be under WOT without the aid of airflow across the cat to dissipate some of the heat...never considered that filter padding aspect of it. Even if it's like 2-3 hp. Lol

[Oxford14Stang]

I have no choice but to run an aftermarket CAI and I posted why.

Ah man, your right I'm retarded lol mybad.

Keep dyno's out of the discussion. As I mentioned, that is nothing more than a false positive when comparing CAI's.

reason I asked is I wanted to know if the stock cai vs a opened air would perform the same on a dyno hood up hood down doesn't matter. If the stock cai stays cooler Id figure it'd dyno out better numbers resulting in better track times.

Now on track times, the stock airbox will perform just as well as an aftermarket CAI.

so it'd perform just as well as an aftermarket one on hwy rolls ... now it seems to be pointless to have a cai lol

Go back and re-read what I posted. It has the answers to everything you are asking again. ;)

Yep, i'm retarded.

[Oxford14Stang]

I had always assumed the fact that most places that had the hood up for a dyno was just keeping the heat from being trapped under the hood since the car would be under WOT without the aid of airflow across the cat to dissipate some of the heat...never considered that filter padding aspect of it. Even if it's like 2-3 hp. Lol

Yeah, figured when dynoing they kept hood up to dissipate heat to make it as close to "down the road" temps as possible. I understand we drive with hoods down but we still get air flow that pushes hot air out.

[wbt]

See, that's what always makes it so hard to swallow about CAIs. Could they be effective? Yes, but not everyone wants to tune their vehicle to support them. I'm sure that a CAI would become beneficial with a matching diameter throttle body, but then you don't know how much the CAI is really doing.

I love the change in exhaust note that mine gave me, and it's a little extra insurance towards my goal of getting a legit 400 rwhp out of my car.

Thanks for the insight, wbt.

You're welcome.

Pretty much all aftermarket CAI's, including the stock intake tube, match up to the 80mm stock TB. The intake manifold opening is ~83mm. Putting an aftermarket TB on that is larger than the intake manifold opening does nothing for power.

You could add aftermarket throttle bodies to the list I posted here for useless upgrades on these platforms:
http://www.dfw50s.com/showpost.php?p=45768&postcount=398

I didn't intend to derail the thread on the technical stuff. We can move it to a more appropriate area if needed. :)

[DirtyD]

You're welcome.

Pretty much all aftermarket CAI's, including the stock intake tube, match up to the 80mm stock TB. The intake manifold opening is ~83mm. Putting an aftermarket TB on that is larger than the intake manifold opening does nothing for power.

You could add aftermarket throttle bodies to the list I posted here for useless upgrades on these platforms:
http://www.dfw50s.com/showpost.php?p=45768&postcount=398

I didn't intend to derail the thread on the technical stuff. We can move it to a more appropriate area if needed. :)

Well.....I guess I'll just hang on to my JLT simply because I don't want to lose money when reselling it. Haha

It always sucks when actually evidence goes against what you told your wallet to buy. Dammit.

I do have another "question" but I don't want to ask it here, so I may just PM you about it.

[wbt]

reason I asked is I wanted to know if the stock cai vs a opened air would perform the same on a dyno hood up hood down doesn't matter. If the stock cai stays cooler Id figure it'd dyno out better numbers resulting in better track times.

Dyno'ing with the hood open is advantageous to an open air filter vs. the stock intake. The reason for this comes down to accessibility to a greater area of air. When you close the hood you remove this advantage.

The proper way to dyno and compare them in such a fashion would be in a wind tunnel that simulates the car driving down the road at speed. Not many facilities have this capability.


so it'd perform just as well as an aftermarket one on hwy rolls ... now it seems to be pointless to have a cai lol

You bet.

My point with this info is don't get caught up in the hype of dyno numbers and manufacture claims. We have done a lot of testing and have a pretty good idea on what works and what doesn't. Feel free to ask either kdanner or I if you aren't sure about if you should run this part or that.

That said, I make no claims to have all the answers but I will help where I can and share my experiences. :)

[wbt]

Well.....I guess I'll just hang on to my JLT simply because I don't want to lose money when reselling it. Haha

It always sucks when actually evidence goes against what you told your wallet to buy. Dammit.

I do have another "question" but I don't want to ask it here, so I may just PM you about it.

Sounds good. :)

[DirtyD]

Sounds good. :)

Mainly just because it would further continue the technical conversations. Lol

[Oxford14Stang]

Dyno'ing with the hood open is advantageous to an open air filter vs. the stock intake. The reason for this comes down to accessibility to a greater area of air. When you close the hood you remove this advantage.

The proper way to dyno and compare them in such a fashion would be in a wind tunnel that simulates the car driving down the road at speed. Not many facilities have this capability.



You bet.

My point with this info is don't get caught up in the hype of dyno numbers and manufacture claims. We have done a lot of testing and have a pretty good idea on what works and what doesn't. Feel free to ask either kdanner or I if you aren't sure about if you should run this part or that.

That said, I make no claims to have all the answers but I will help where I can and share my experiences. :)

Okay I see what you mean about the hood up or hood down. And as pointless as dyno numbers are and only thing that matters is track times I was just curious as how well the stock box performed. Well hey, thanks for all your info and time. Good information and something I'll considered looking into.

[Yagermeister]

To say his car should run 130+ is also uneducated.....

I have a Honda that hangs around our shop that makes 498fwhp... It traps 140mph in the 1/4 mile..... How do you figure that?

Well I will tell you, power to weight is everything in drag racing. Jeff claims his car weighs over 3850 with out him in the car. That would make it over 4000lb with him in the car going down the track. Weight will kill mph.....

My fox body back in the day made 400rwhp (1996) weighed 3196 with me in it and traped 128.8mph.

You have to quit taking the times the fast guys on the Internet are runing and thinking that a little higher dyno number should make a heavy car not set up to track with a new driver should run with the educated and prepared racer. Raw power will not over come weight and set up

I'm curious as to what mph you think True Streets high dollar 525+HP built motor will get seeing that with tune and tires and an xpipe can get you 117-119mph in the exact same model of a mustang with the same weight (Jeff's car does not weigh what he thinks).

[Dark Pony]

Whoa...mind blown.

[03MachMe]

John (GunsUp) was there but won't race at the track, only the street.

Exactly what the problem is with this top ten.

All this arguing is getting very old very quickly. This site was fun when people wouldn't take shit so personal. Jeff your going to catch some shit because you talked shit, but a lot of you are over doing it. We know Jeff SHOULD BE running a lot faster times, give him some time to figure out his car. And Jeff we know you need better tires But you can also do a lot better with those. You should be able to cut a 1.7 at least even with those tires just takes some time. Don't take shit so personal when you jab back and it keeps going back and forth it gets really old to read and then everyone else jumps in. This thread is about the call out list not reasons Jeff didn't run well at the track. Just my 02¢

[46Tbird]

It's my understanding #10 was not there and a lot of people wanting to get on the list couldn't do so. I know Dark Pony was trying to set up some races to move up the list but I don't know what came of it.

So one person not showing up causes a pile-up? Seems like that person forfeited and dropped a place, everyone else should continue calling out and racing. I guess that's why Street Outlaws has a big chief, this type of issue isn't gonna work itself out by committee.

Not sensitive at all. I'm not on great tires and haven't been to the track in years. I would had been very happy to hit 11's my first time back in over a decade. But it didn't happen oh well. But Steve won't bet me cause we are "friends" yet he gives me a lot of shit when usually friends don't do that. At least not as much as he does. I guess since he got so much shit at Dfwmustangs he thinks he can do that here. I think I'm going to call Steve, Eric.
So much comic gold!

[TrueStreetMotorSports.com]

I'm curious as to what mph you think True Streets high dollar 525+HP built motor will get seeing that with tune and tires and an xpipe can get you 117-119mph in the exact same model of a mustang with the same weight (Jeff's car does not weigh what he thinks).

Jeff claims he weigh it at 3878lb and that is not with Jeff in it. So if this is the case and Jeff gets in since the car will not drive it's self it is over 4000lb.

Now are you saying your friend is telling a lie? Jeff does a lot on the Internet I would chose to do differently but to say is flat out lying is pretty serious.

[TrueStreetMotorSports.com]

Exactly what the problem is with this top ten.

All this arguing is getting very old very quickly. This site was fun when people wouldn't take shit so personal. Jeff your going to catch some shit because you talked shit, but a lot of you are over doing it. We know Jeff SHOULD BE running a lot faster times, give him some time to figure out his car. And Jeff we know you need better tires But you can also do a lot better with those. You should be able to cut a 1.7 at least even with those tires just takes some time. Don't take shit so personal when you jab back and it keeps going back and forth it gets really old to read and then everyone else jumps in. This thread is about the call out list not reasons Jeff didn't run well at the track. Just my 02¢

I agree, I believe Jeff poked a lot if people and now everyone is loving him not doing good job driving the car. But I can tell you with his wife being as pregnant as she is I can image it's not good time for him to be arguing and getting mad over things as silly as him not driving his car good at the track.

It's getting old on both sides for sure

[Junkie]

Talk a bunch of shit, don't back it up, get called out....seems pretty simple to me. Happens to the best of us.

[kdanner]

Jeff claims he weigh it at 3878lb and that is not with Jeff in it. So if this is the case and Jeff gets in since the car will not drive it's self it is over 4000lb.

Now are you saying your friend is telling a lie? Jeff does a lot on the Internet I would chose to do differently but to say is flat out lying is pretty serious.

Base GTs weigh less than 3600 untouched, that's a fact. I've had a few of them on my own scales. You can say telling a lie, whatever else if you want. I'd just focus on there is absolutely no way that car weighs anywhere near what he claims unless he has added a whole lot of weight with useless crap like stereo shit.

[Phuck Phace]

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b6/s1roush/photo_zps1c74d92d.jpg

[STROKD]

I'd just focus on there is absolutely no way that car weighs anywhere near what he claims unless he has added a whole lot of weight with useless crap like stereo shit.

Hey! Wtf is wrong with stereo shit?

[46Tbird]

Base GTs weigh less than 3600 untouched, that's a fact. I've had a few of them on my own scales. You can say telling a lie, whatever else if you want. I'd just focus on there is absolutely no way that car weighs anywhere near what he claims unless he has added a whole lot of weight with useless crap like stereo shit.

Mine weighed right at 3600 on the 20s without me and around a half tank of gas. There's no way Jeff's car is anywhere near 3800 unless he was moving around some gym equipment. Not saying he's lying, it's just that the scales he went to must have been off. Did he not weigh it down at Ennis? All I heard was everyone going on and on about their weight since they had the scales opened up.

[Grandpa]

I agree, I believe Jeff poked a lot if people and now everyone is loving him not doing good job driving the car. But I can tell you with his wife being as pregnant as she is I can image it's not good time for him to be arguing and getting mad over things as silly as him not driving his car good at the track.

It's getting old on both sides for sure

There is no question about that, not only did he "poke" a lot of people, but he beat the subject to death and took the title of king of 5.0s before his car was even finished. There is NO WAY to make a claim like that then fail to back it up and not expect to get shit back for it. That's just racing, you know this.

I do agree, it's done and over with now. Jeff showed his ass, we've had some laughs over it now we should come together to have fun and help Jeff out. The problem is, as usual he's not reacting well to the ribbing he is getting lashing out attacking people personally. If he'd just laugh it off and get back to racing I have no doubt everyone would support him.

I wish Jeff luck. Every new combo needs to be dialed in. Just expecting to jump in to run a number isn't going to happen. It takes time and practice and I'm sure Jeff will get it done in time.

Talk a bunch of shit, don't back it up, get called out....seems pretty simple to me. Happens to the best of us.

It's always been that way, always will be. Its a testosterone driven sport. lol

Base GTs weigh less than 3600 untouched, that's a fact. I've had a few of them on my own scales. You can say telling a lie, whatever else if you want. I'd just focus on there is absolutely no way that car weighs anywhere near what he claims unless he has added a whole lot of weight with useless crap like stereo shit.

I'll give Jeff the benefit of the doubt here. If his car isn't 4000lbs with him in it, it's going to be very close to it because he is a big boy. He is like 6'4 280lbs.

[KungFuHamster]

Base GTs weigh less than 3600 untouched, that's a fact. I've had a few of them on my own scales. You can say telling a lie, whatever else if you want. I'd just focus on there is absolutely no way that car weighs anywhere near what he claims unless he has added a whole lot of weight with useless crap like stereo shit.
the scale at Crandall had my car at 3,895 lbs.

The scale at Ennis saturday had it closer to 3,750 lbs.

That's a big difference Which one's right? The carseat was in the car both times.


Also, since this is the callout list, why don't the PA guys post their times and the N/A guys post up their times (edit) from Saturday night(edit) and go from there. I promise, NOBODY has a faster 13 sec timeslip than me :)

[kdanner]

because he is a big boy. He is like 6'4 280lbs.

Almost exactly my size. I'll stick with my prior statements.

[kdanner]

the scale at Crandall had my car at 3,895 lbs.

The scale at Ennis saturday had it closer to 3,750 lbs.

That's a big difference Which one's right? The carseat was in the car both times.

I don't know, what's the car, how is it equipped, non stock items, how much do you weigh?

[Phuck Phace]

Also, since this is the callout list, why don't the PA guys post their times and the N/A guys post up their times and go from there....

Should have done this before making the list.

[KungFuHamster]

I don't know, what's the car, how is it equipped, non stock items, how much do you weigh?
2011 GT. Fully equipped (leather/power seat) standard shift, 19 in rims/tires all the way around.

I race the car in full street trim. I leave all the crap (includding car seat) in the car.

My car was the grabber blue with black rims out there Saturday night.

[46Tbird]

Should have done this before making the list.

The world's biggest DUH to that. Initial ranking should have been based on timeslips only - not rumor or theory or buddy system. If you'd never gotten a timeslip, then you wouldn't have been ranked. Seems pretty simple to me, but the board sure has gotten a lot of traffic over the drama. :Angry:

[blownaltered]

We need a fast fox body list that way I can be on a list. I hardly ever race so I sound like all the other lists.

[Courtesy Flush]

So did anyone move rank Saturday evening?

[KungFuHamster]

I think Saturday should serve as a baseline for the list(s). Then when (if) anyone races someone on said list on the street, then it's whoever finishes first. Naturally if they agree to run at the track, I would suggest an actual grudge race where all we see is a win light, because that's all that matters anyways.

I say the Nitrous guys should make the choice to either run with or without the squeeze and choose a list. Or if yall prefer they can dual hat and get on both since they have that option.

[Grandpa]

So did anyone move rank Saturday evening?

Solid question. Let's get back on topic here. :)

[Yagermeister]

Jeff claims he weigh it at 3878lb and that is not with Jeff in it. So if this is the case and Jeff gets in since the car will not drive it's self it is over 4000lb.

Now are you saying your friend is telling a lie? Jeff does a lot on the Internet I would chose to do differently but to say is flat out lying is pretty serious.

Not saying my friend is lying but that he used a very inaccurate scale ;)

[Yagermeister]

There is no question about that, not only did he "poke" a lot of people, but he beat the subject to death and took the title of king of 5.0s before his car was even finished. There is NO WAY to make a claim like that then fail to back it up and not expect to get shit back for it. That's just racing, you know this.

I do agree, it's done and over with now. Jeff showed his ass, we've had some laughs over it now we should come together to have fun and help Jeff out. The problem is, as usual he's not reacting well to the ribbing he is getting lashing out attacking people personally. If he'd just laugh it off and get back to racing I have no doubt everyone would support him.

I wish Jeff luck. Every new combo needs to be dialed in. Just expecting to jump in to run a number isn't going to happen. It takes time and practice and I'm sure Jeff will get it done in time.



It's always been that way, always will be. Its a testosterone driven sport. lol



I'll give Jeff the benefit of the doubt here. If his car isn't 4000lbs with him in it, it's going to be very close to it because he is a big boy. He is like 6'4 280lbs.

Clint drove his car so remove 130 lbs right there :D

[Yagermeister]

the scale at Crandall had my car at 3,895 lbs.

The scale at Ennis saturday had it closer to 3,750 lbs.

That's a big difference Which one's right? The carseat was in the car both times.


Also, since this is the callout list, why don't the PA guys post their times and the N/A guys post up their times (edit) from Saturday night(edit) and go from there. I promise, NOBODY has a faster 13 sec timeslip than me :)

Gas is ~6lbs per gallon if I remember plus how much windshield washer fluid did you have? These amounts could sway your weight 60 or more lbs

[Doug]

This Saturday is a street warz event at Northstar. Its a bracket racing event but they also have open test n tune. Track prep is always good at denton. I went to the last street wars in july with a bunch of the carrollton guys just for the tnt. We all made several passes. I say everyone should go out this Saturday and compare times and race it out!

[Yagermeister]

Dale, Nicolas, and I will have a meeting of the minds to discuss the Callout List

[blownaltered]

Clint drove his car so remove 130 lbs right there :D

That was also Clint's first time driving that car down the track so you can't really count that either. You kind of like doing this don't you :beatdeadhorse5:

[Yagermeister]

Blownaltered...you mean like Jeff saying he's faster than everyone even when he hadn't got his car back? :beers:

[blownaltered]

Blownaltered...you mean like Jeff saying he's faster than everyone even when he hadn't got his car back? :beers:

Your getting close, not there yet but getting close. So you know how annoying he was, so the question is do you want to be like him.

[BLK2012GT]

Blownaltered...you mean like Jeff saying he's faster than everyone even when he hadn't got his car back? :beers:

Race me on the streets find out if you're faster. I'm willing to back it up with money.

[Junkie]

Race me on the streets find out if you're faster. I'm willing to back it up with money.

street racing is bad...mmmmmmmmk

[BLK2012GT]

street racing is bad...mmmmmmmmk

Mmmmmmmmmk

[kdanner]

2011 GT. Fully equipped (leather/power seat) standard shift, 19 in rims/tires all the way around.

I race the car in full street trim. I leave all the crap (includding car seat) in the car.

My car was the grabber blue with black rims out there Saturday night.


Untouched premium with any driver bigger than a dwarf, I don't think can be under 3800.

[GunsUp]

I did not race at Ennis this wknd so I had until Friday to respond to my callouts. If y'all decide to reorganize the list based off of slip times I do not have a problem forfeiting my #10 spot as long as I can keep my sig pic

[KungFuHamster]

Untouched premium with any driver bigger than a dwarf, I don't think can be under 3800.I've lost 15 lbs...but I still tip the scales at ~ 190.

[Luke]

I did not race at Ennis this wknd so I had until Friday to respond to my callouts. If y'all decide to reorganize the list based off of slip times I do not have a problem forfeiting my #10 spot as long as I can keep my sig pic

IN for rankings based on timeslips! Lol, my car sucks on the highway

[BLK2012GT]

IN for rankings based on timeslips! Lol, my car sucks on the highway

They need to make up their minds if this so call top ten is based on timeslips or just racing period. I know they got this idea from street outlaws and if they are basing it off of that, then I don't see the point of time slips.

[03MachMe]

IN for rankings based on timeslips! Lol, my car sucks on the highway

Mine doesn't run on the hwy so me too

[kdanner]

I've lost 15 lbs...but I still tip the scales at ~ 190.

So you, a car seat, and a helmet is ~210-215 lbs. Not buying the 3750 number from the Ennis scale. A base GT on 19" but otherwise unmodified wouldn't make that number. Sounds like the Crandall number is closer to me.

[Midnight11]

They need to make up their minds if this so call top ten is based on timeslips or just racing period. I know they got this idea from street outlaws and if they are basing it off of that, then I don't see the point of time slips.

I really don't need your input. It was just supposed to be a fun thing but now it really isn't


I'm getting a track/timeslip feature add on for the site

[KungFuHamster]

So you, a car seat, and a helmet is ~210-215 lbs. Not buying the 3750 number from the Ennis scale. A base GT on 19" but otherwise unmodified wouldn't make that number. Sounds like the Crandall number is closer to me.
I think so too.

[BLK2012GT]

I really don't need your input. It was just supposed to be a fun thing but now it really isn't


I'm getting a track/timeslip feature add on for the site

Hey Nic I don't care if you don't need my input. I'll give it to you anyways. That's what a forum is for. For people posting stuff they feel like saying.

[Midnight11]

Hey Nic I don't care if you don't need my input. I'll give it to you anyways. That's what a forum is for. For people posting stuff they feel like saying.

Here's my input. Learn to drive

[GunsUp]

I think we should base it off of slowest time slip. Sooooo Jeff you're OUT MOFO

[Luke]

I'm getting a track/timeslip feature add on for the site

:happy107:

[BLK2012GT]

Here's my input. Learn to drive

Here's mine input. How did my exhaust smell on the hwy when we race. Oh you probably couldn't smell it cause how far AHEAD I was from you. Why don't you post that video.

[BLK2012GT]

I think we should base it off of slowest time slip. Sooooo Jeff you're OUT MOFO

Lol hell I could post the fastest timeslips and these pussies still won't put me up there cause I don't talk nice to them and say I'm slow and shit. Pssssh

[46Tbird]

They need to make up their minds if this so call top ten is based on timeslips or just racing period. I know they got this idea from street outlaws and if they are basing it off of that, then I don't see the point of time slips.

Not to base it ALL on timeslips - just to base the INITIAL RANKING. It would just seem weird to put one car over another even though it had never been down a track. Besides, if it's really a fast car, it will work it's way through the slow cars no problem. ;)

[GunsUp]

Here's mine input. How did my exhaust smell on the hwy when we race. Oh you probably couldn't smell it cause how far AHEAD I was from you. Why don't you post that video.

So your car makes more power and you beat him?

Cool story bro

[Midnight11]

There isn't a video and okay cool ill admit you beat me. You have 100 more hp on me. That's the difference between u and me I can take defeat. I've raced plenty cars and lost. Still have fun and I get better at driving

[BLK2012GT]

So your car makes more power and you beat him?

Cool story bro

Yup pretty much. But I need to learn how to drive. At the track he's I need to relearn my shit. On the street is totally different.

[GunsUp]

Jeff you're my buddy I hope you know I'm just ribbing you like a condom

[BLK2012GT]

There isn't a video and okay cool ill admit you beat me. You have 100 more hp on me. That's the difference between u and me I can take defeat. I've raced plenty cars and lost. Still have fun and I get better at driving

Really no video? Why cause you told your new roomie to delete it. You know damn well he was filming with his phone.

[BLK2012GT]

Jeff you're my buddy I hope you know I'm just ribbing you like a condom

Yes John I know man.

[BLK2012GT]

Oh and thanks for not sending to me cause I really did want to see about my shifting. But it's all good.

[TrueStreetMotorSports.com]

Yup pretty much. But I need to learn how to drive. At the track he's I need to relearn my shit. On the street is totally different.

Really no video? Why cause you told your new roomie to delete it. You know damn well he was filming with his phone.

Let it die Jeff, there is no reason to contunie to make fights. They are ready to move on but if you contunie to give them shit they will do the same. If you don't mind everybody gang banging you then contunie to Push there buttons.....

I would chose to let the drama die, to stressful and no fun to get on the forums and read

[BLK2012GT]

Alright man I'm done.

[kdanner]

Lol hell I could post the fastest timeslips and these pussies still won't put me up there cause I don't talk nice to them and say I'm slow and shit. Pssssh

If I were you, that's exactly what I would do. I have the reputation of not talking nice to people either. In the end someone on a forum somewhere is going to pick at it anyway, no matter what you do. I get lameass excuses all the time like:

your track hooks better than mine
my track is 6" longer than yours (as if that makes some huge difference even if true)
you had a VP plastic jug there, so obviously you are using that FTW fuel
you have a super light race car(never mind things like roll bars and me, the 280lb driver)
you have full suspension(not even sure what that means)
you were trained by one of the best tuners in the world
I could go on and on........


Just put up good numbers on a slip, and to hell with the little shits who try to dispute anything then.

[Grandpa]

Not to base it ALL on timeslips - just to base the INITIAL RANKING. It would just seem weird to put one car over another even though it had never been down a track. Besides, if it's really a fast car, it will work it's way through the slow cars no problem. ;)

Exactly!

Yup pretty much. But I need to learn how to drive. At the track he's I need to relearn my shit. On the street is totally different.

Agreed. It's easy to roll race these cars at this power level on the street. Not much to it. But launching a stick car at the track takes skill and finesse. Look at 46tbird. He's got it down and going quick with a STOCK car. I wish I could get some time with him and learn from him. I'll learn from anyone who has something to teach me, even though he's a jerk to me. lol.

Let it die Jeff, there is no reason to contunie to make fights. They are ready to move on but if you contunie to give them shit they will do the same. If you don't mind everybody gang banging you then contunie to Push there buttons.....

I would chose to let the drama die, to stressful and no fun to get on the forums and read

Exactly sir. It's done and over with. Now its time to go forward and everyone to get to the top of their game. Jeff going fast on motor just encourages me to want to do more. It's suppose to be fun!

Alright man I'm done.

Thank ya sir.