DFW 5.0s Callout Lists

[wbt]

Originally Posted by Oxford14Stang A little confused my friend. I saw the graphs and watched both videos. I have the jlt oil sep. and have checked it here and there, it's been on my car maybe 3,000 miles now, I have 8,800 on the car now. Back to your graphs and comparisons. Based on what your signals were reading that'd effect only shifts? Or would it effect horsepower as well? Also, because of those testing are you running your stock cai?

If you know how to fit the stock airbox to the CJ intake manifold I am all ears. As is, I am using a custom Airaid setup where I modified a 2010 GT Airaid intake tube to mate to the GT500 TB and Airaid airbox.



kdanner posted some of the technical finding from the testing: http://www.dfw50s.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=404

Keep an eye on those JLT fittings. Eventually they will break if they are not the metal pieces.

Originally Posted by Oxford14Stang Yeah, I've heard many people, time after time, mention the stock boxes performed very well. And "pointless" to replace it. I just figured an open air filter could squeeze more air in, may not be the coolest air but more air and based on that video I watched his gauges showed and he said the open air filters cool off quicker than the already great stock cai

We did back to back testing at the track between the stock airbox and the JLT. Both using the same tune minus the changes for the MAF transfer function. There was a .06 difference between the two. That falls within the margin of error. In a nutshell, buy an aftermarket CAI for looks/sound.

The video about IAT's prove nothing. What he doesn't discuss is that when using the stock intake, the IAT's sitting still in traffic will not increase nearly as fast vs. using an aftermarket CAI. We all live in Texas and know how hot it gets here. A DD car will fare much better with the stock intake.

Regarding dyno numbers, dyno'ing with the hood open will show an open air filter producing gains over stock but that is a false positive. The minute the hood closes those gains disappear. We drive our cars with the hood closed, not open.

Originally Posted by DirtyD So is the intake you have one of the first production ones? Before any revisions and what not? If so, I'm sure that make be part of it. You'd think someone on Craigslist would be on it. Haha I do like the stock box, especially the fact it's a closed element design to help negate any effect from under hood temps on the IATs. I just don't like the accordion style couples and tube they use on it because I would imagine the interference in airflow that would cause. Why not just make a straight flow through tube from the factory and be done?...

It is one without the filter stop. The unit I have we tested with is what led the brand "j" owner to put a filter stop on his product.

[Oxford14Stang]

Okay with that said let me ask you. You're running an open air filter, why is that? I'm running the Steeda. I'm just trying to figure out if the stock box performs better as far as hp gains and ET? if the stock box stays cooler I'd imagine we'd all see improved ETs If that's the case I don't see an open air filter dynoing out higher numbers after three pulls over the stock box??

[DirtyD]

Originally Posted by Oxford14Stang Okay with that said let me ask you. You're running an open air filter, why is that? I'm running the Steeda. I'm just trying to figure out if the stock box performs better as far as hp gains and ET? if the stock box stays cooler I'd imagine we'd all see improved ETs If that's the case I don't see an open air filter dynoing out higher numbers after three pulls over the stock box??

The stock box stays cooler long in standing traffic or idle situations. Both will perform about the same under moving airflow conditions.

[wbt]

Originally Posted by Oxford14Stang Okay with that said let me ask you. You're running an open air filter, why is that? I'm running the Steeda. I'm just trying to figure out if the stock box performs better as far as hp gains and ET? if the stock box stays cooler I'd imagine we'd all see improved ETs If that's the case I don't see an open air filter dynoing out higher numbers after three pulls over the stock box??

I have no choice but to run an aftermarket CAI and I posted why.

Keep dyno's out of the discussion. As I mentioned, that is nothing more than a false positive when comparing CAI's.

Now on track times, the stock airbox will perform just as well as an aftermarket CAI.

Go back and re-read what I posted. It has the answers to everything you are asking again.

[DirtyD]

Originally Posted by wbt I have no choice but to run an aftermarket CAI and I posted why. Keep dyno's out of the discussion. As I mentioned, that is nothing more than a false positive when comparing CAI's. Now on track times, the stock airbox will perform just as well as an aftermarket CAI. Go back and re-read what I posted. It has the answers to everything you are asking again.

I had always assumed the fact that most places that had the hood up for a dyno was just keeping the heat from being trapped under the hood since the car would be under WOT without the aid of airflow across the cat to dissipate some of the heat...never considered that filter padding aspect of it. Even if it's like 2-3 hp. Lol

[Oxford14Stang]

Originally Posted by DirtyD I had always assumed the fact that most places that had the hood up for a dyno was just keeping the heat from being trapped under the hood since the car would be under WOT without the aid of airflow across the cat to dissipate some of the heat...never considered that filter padding aspect of it. Even if it's like 2-3 hp. Lol

Yeah, figured when dynoing they kept hood up to dissipate heat to make it as close to "down the road" temps as possible. I understand we drive with hoods down but we still get air flow that pushes hot air out.

[Oxford14Stang]

Originally Posted by wbt I have no choice but to run an aftermarket CAI and I posted why. Ah man, your right I'm retarded lol mybad. Keep dyno's out of the discussion. As I mentioned, that is nothing more than a false positive when comparing CAI's. reason I asked is I wanted to know if the stock cai vs a opened air would perform the same on a dyno hood up hood down doesn't matter. If the stock cai stays cooler Id figure it'd dyno out better numbers resulting in better track times. Now on track times, the stock airbox will perform just as well as an aftermarket CAI. so it'd perform just as well as an aftermarket one on hwy rolls ... now it seems to be pointless to have a cai lol Go back and re-read what I posted. It has the answers to everything you are asking again.

Yep, i'm retarded.

[wbt]

Originally Posted by Oxford14Stang reason I asked is I wanted to know if the stock cai vs a opened air would perform the same on a dyno hood up hood down doesn't matter. If the stock cai stays cooler Id figure it'd dyno out better numbers resulting in better track times.

Dyno'ing with the hood open is advantageous to an open air filter vs. the stock intake. The reason for this comes down to accessibility to a greater area of air. When you close the hood you remove this advantage.

The proper way to dyno and compare them in such a fashion would be in a wind tunnel that simulates the car driving down the road at speed. Not many facilities have this capability.

so it'd perform just as well as an aftermarket one on hwy rolls ... now it seems to be pointless to have a cai lol

You bet.

My point with this info is don't get caught up in the hype of dyno numbers and manufacture claims. We have done a lot of testing and have a pretty good idea on what works and what doesn't. Feel free to ask either kdanner or I if you aren't sure about if you should run this part or that.

That said, I make no claims to have all the answers but I will help where I can and share my experiences.

[Oxford14Stang]

Originally Posted by wbt Dyno'ing with the hood open is advantageous to an open air filter vs. the stock intake. The reason for this comes down to accessibility to a greater area of air. When you close the hood you remove this advantage. The proper way to dyno and compare them in such a fashion would be in a wind tunnel that simulates the car driving down the road at speed. Not many facilities have this capability. You bet. My point with this info is don't get caught up in the hype of dyno numbers and manufacture claims. We have done a lot of testing and have a pretty good idea on what works and what doesn't. Feel free to ask either kdanner or I if you aren't sure about if you should run this part or that. That said, I make no claims to have all the answers but I will help where I can and share my experiences.

Okay I see what you mean about the hood up or hood down. And as pointless as dyno numbers are and only thing that matters is track times I was just curious as how well the stock box performed. Well hey, thanks for all your info and time. Good information and something I'll considered looking into.

[DirtyD]

Originally Posted by wbt If you know how to fit the stock airbox to the CJ intake manifold I am all ears. As is, I am using a custom Airaid setup where I modified a 2012 GT Airaid intake tube to mate to the GT500 TB and Airaid airbox. kdanner posted some of the technical finding from the testing: http://www.dfw50s.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=404 Keep an eye on those JLT fittings. Eventually they will break if they are not the metal pieces. We did back to back testing at the track between the stock airbox and the JLT. Both using the same tune minus the changes for the MAF transfer function. There was a .06 difference between the two. That falls within the margin of error. In a nutshell, buy an aftermarket CAI for looks/sound. The video about IAT's prove nothing. What he doesn't discuss is that when using the stock intake, the IAT's sitting still in traffic will not increase nearly as fast vs. using an aftermarket CAI. We all live in Texas and know how hot it gets here. A DD car will fare much better with the stock intake. Regarding dyno numbers, dyno'ing with the hood open will show an open air filter producing gains over stock but that is a false positive. The minute the hood closes those gains disappear. We drive our cars with the hood closed, not open. It is one without the filter stop. The unit I have we tested with is what led the brand "j" owner to put a filter stop on his product.

See, that's what always makes it so hard to swallow about CAIs. Could they be effective? Yes, but not everyone wants to tune their vehicle to support them. I'm sure that a CAI would become beneficial with a matching diameter throttle body, but then you don't know how much the CAI is really doing.

I love the change in exhaust note that mine gave me, and it's a little extra insurance towards my goal of getting a legit 400 rwhp out of my car.

Thanks for the insight, wbt.

[wbt]

Originally Posted by DirtyD See, that's what always makes it so hard to swallow about CAIs. Could they be effective? Yes, but not everyone wants to tune their vehicle to support them. I'm sure that a CAI would become beneficial with a matching diameter throttle body, but then you don't know how much the CAI is really doing. I love the change in exhaust note that mine gave me, and it's a little extra insurance towards my goal of getting a legit 400 rwhp out of my car. Thanks for the insight, wbt.

You're welcome.

Pretty much all aftermarket CAI's, including the stock intake tube, match up to the 80mm stock TB. The intake manifold opening is ~83mm. Putting an aftermarket TB on that is larger than the intake manifold opening does nothing for power.

You could add aftermarket throttle bodies to the list I posted here for useless upgrades on these platforms:
http://www.dfw50s.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=398

I didn't intend to derail the thread on the technical stuff. We can move it to a more appropriate area if needed.

[DirtyD]

Originally Posted by wbt You're welcome. Pretty much all aftermarket CAI's, including the stock intake tube, match up to the 80mm stock TB. The intake manifold opening is ~83mm. Putting an aftermarket TB on that is larger than the intake manifold opening does nothing for power. You could add aftermarket throttle bodies to the list I posted here for useless upgrades on these platforms: http://www.dfw50s.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=398 I didn't intend to derail the thread on the technical stuff. We can move it to a more appropriate area if needed.

Well.....I guess I'll just hang on to my JLT simply because I don't want to lose money when reselling it. Haha

It always sucks when actually evidence goes against what you told your wallet to buy. Dammit.

I do have another "question" but I don't want to ask it here, so I may just PM you about it.

[wbt]

Originally Posted by DirtyD Well.....I guess I'll just hang on to my JLT simply because I don't want to lose money when reselling it. Haha It always sucks when actually evidence goes against what you told your wallet to buy. Dammit. I do have another "question" but I don't want to ask it here, so I may just PM you about it.

Sounds good.

[DirtyD]

Originally Posted by wbt Sounds good.

Mainly just because it would further continue the technical conversations. Lol