I understand your point. But there are also other archaic designs that are just ridiculous to try to use against modern technology and claim "a ____ car needs to be."

Truth is, the market determines what ____ car needs to be. That's why Ferrari hasn't offered a manual in years, Porsche's most aggressive track car is now ONLY an automatic and the GTR is able to crush cars with much more power and slaughter cars (that on paper) should be faster around any track.

Time moves on. So to respectively counter "A muscle car should be a standard" I say "A muscle car should be able to effectively compete against the target cars" And that will not continue with a traditional manual transmission.

-Alex

Why do people argue over this? Some people like to drive a manual. Some people like to drive an auto.

It is not that hard to comprehend.

As far as performance, each has its own area to excel. The auto in this car is great for straight lines or maybe some light road course... but is nothing compared to say a DSG transmission that can shift up/down in less than half a second. They put one of those in these cars and I could see there being more of an argument to retire the manual.

Until then, each to their own.

I like my manual no matter how much I suck at the drag strip. I have fun driving it even if I am not breaking records.

LMAO, so true. In your case I can understand the auto. Big power cars just eat drivetrain parts like nothing to it. In my case, I have no intention of making more than 750rw and I drive like an old woman most of the time so I will enjoy rowing my gears until I'm old like you and need an auto. :D :driver:

So the whole reason I made this thread was I miss the bangin of the Gears. I do think with a stall Id be more happy with my Auto, i'm not unhappy with it but if I hit the strip a little more would enjoy it if that makes sense.
My auto z28 with a stall gears cam nitrous was probably one of the most fun cars I've had and it was an auto, More than my 650ish hp 12 gt, my C5Z, and my stroker supercharged GTO.

A pussy car? Certainly not. It's a marvel of modern technology and a amazing machine in every aspect. BUT, I will tell you from personal experience driving a stock one and a heavily modded one - they are the most boring sports car I have ever driven in my life. The cars are SO stable and has so many technical on-board babysitters it's practically taken the driver out of the equation. My wife's 88 year old grandmother could seriously pilot one down the track and run a good number cuz the computers do everything but push down the go pedal and steer it.

In fact, the ONLY time the car feels fast is from a deadstop launch but then when it stabilizes after the first 60ft you lose that fast feeling cuz the computers are controlling everything.

Fast as hell? Absoultely.

Fun to drive? 2 out of 10.

Agreed and very well said, Danny.

I agree, at least for a street car. Autos are great for the track, but you lose the feel of a car with an auto. An auto car to ME, feels very numb.

Auto cars can be fast, no question about it, but it's still not the same. As stated above, just kind of ...numb.

Junkie (Will) is a perfect example of what can be done with an auto car. His CTS-V put a hurting on some FAST fuckin cars on the highway. Boost, spray and a nice stalled auto is very, very tough to beat. He was beating..no..destroying cars that were making a couple hundred more RW than he was, but they would lose a length or two on every shift and big HP stick cars shock the tires MUCH harder than an auto car does.

Meanwhile he is destroying all these cars, they are rowing gears and he his sitting there playing with the stereo controls on the steering wheel waiting to see if they are going to fetch him or not.

It comes down to personal preference. Like Junkie, you can go out and get a ton of kills with a auto car like his V. Winning races is fun no question about it. But even he has a his bolt on Viper to row gears with and he's having a blast with it.

I'm okay with being a lil slower, having to pedal my car for traction because I LOVE driving my car. If I wanted a boring point and shoot car, I would have gotten into electronic box bracket racing.

I love manual transmissions. Not the junk like the MT82 or anything Tremec makes, the real deal Jerico/Gforce/Liberty stuff. Of course that totally eliminates the BS of "it takes skill", which is nothing more than an excuse for a POS transmission. You aren't going to miss gears with the good stuff, the only possibility for driver error is to shift at the wrong time, which is no different than an automatic with a manual valve body.

My wife's car has an MT-82 so when I feel the need to stick something into a corner and row the gears it does just that.

My auto with a loose converter is still more fun to drive on the street in a straight line. Flashing the converter makes for a nice "blip".

The right convertor is definitely key with an auto on the street. The wrong selection can make street driving absolutely miserable even though it might haul ass in a straight line.

That's even subjective. Some have higher tolerance for certain things vs. others. ;)

How about those 2015 Mustangs? Seems to be a lot of "Internet rumors" flowing. It will be interesting to see what Ford does however I will never own one.

Why is that?

-Alex

I'm not speaking for wbt but, if i was guessing.
One of the fastest N/A 5.0L mustangs around and getting faster.
Setup that works for 1/4 duty and daily.

Stick with what works and continues to perform. Whats upsetting is some F/I cars havent even come close to a 10 second 1/4 mile :boxing:


Also initial photos of new body looks like a mut. Fusion or mustang, New age or modern? Does ford even know?

Just doesn't appeal to me. Not a fan of IRS and if they come up with a way to make more power that I can retrofit, then no real need to change.

The IRS stuff is probably the biggest deal breaker. It is one of the reasons I dumped my 2010 Camaro SS for a 2011 Mustang GT. So much more expensive to make it reliable enough for consistent strip duty.

The "Coyote Tax" will be renewed all over again as well. :(

So as long as you don't have to use the clutch to shift gears, you love a manual transmission lol

Well, the new C7 manual transmission has a no-lift shift capability. Keep the right foot in and only use the left. That would take some getting used to.

Its easy. I've been powershifting Mustangs like that for years. lol

You mean just like every Fox body ever made? Impressive!

Works okay on an MT82, too...

Not at all, in fact I've never driven one with split sliders, only clutch assisted ones. I do think the clutchless would be even better though.

So what's so bad about a Tremec? I've used a 3550 and a TKO before and they seemed to work just fine. Of course, I say that never having used a G-Force or Liberty tranny.

Ever try to shift a tremec at high RPM? You can fix it, then you've spent more than a jerico would be to begin with and you still have a weaker trans. Still can't get an inline shifter for it either.

I guess not. Mine was in an '89 and usually didn't get above 5500 lol

Yeah that'd make a difference. Above 7000 the 3550/TKO gets uncooperative, and the 6060/Magnum does too.

At high RPM's the early model T5 and Tremec's suffered from the cases flexing. A lot of times when people thought it was power breaking them it was really the high RPM's. Same the with blocks. Harmonics were a killer with the cheap stock'ish type parts.

I love my manual (mt-82) and wouldn't have it any other way. To me a muscle car MUST come with a manual transmission its just part of the equation when it comes to owning one. I will never own a car with more than 300hp without a manual transmission. That's just my opinion on what I like, and I think most can agree. I have also been driving manuals since I learned to drive so I am a bit bias.

I would only own an auto in my wife's car (Nissan Altima 4cyl.) or if I was a hard core drag racer. I am not a hard core drag racer and never will be so all my muscle cars no matter how heavily modified will be manuals.

The MT-82 is also NOT a racing transmission at any length. A definite slight short coming with Ford when you look at what the motor is capable of but again if you are not heavily modified and don't beat the shit out of it the MT-82 it is perfect for what the car is as it comes from the factory, which ford intended its use for.

If you complain it won't hold hold up to 700hp, 5500rpm launches, or WOT shifting well no SHIT!

Right now I get to play the game on how long the stock clutch is going to last with my P1SC on. Each have transmissions have their perks, but unless Ford drops a paddle shifting single/dual clutch automatic that is good (not the rocker switch crap, don't flame about that comment), you won't see me in one.

Sounds like the T5 of the 6speeds lol

I've had 5 "performance" cars (not all were muscle cars) and this is the ONLY auto I've had.

I'm happy.

I got tired of buying clutches, traffic and the tediousness of it on a daily basis.

Love the 5.0 (though it needs more power) and am really enjoying this auto. It's a GREAT cruiser- took a summer trip to St. Louis and back and got just over 26 mpg with an extra 500 lbs in it on a stock tune.

I drove stick for 10 consecutive years from the age of 18 until I was 28. My car is an auto now and I don't really care what other people think. Only one guy gave me shit about it but he drove an older V6 so I told him he could talk crap about my car the day he has one faster. Shut him right up.

I really enjoy driving a manual. For me, it was more about the 6r80 being a better transmission than the mt82. Like mentioned above, I knew I wouldn't have to put a clutch in it or worry about breaking it. Hell, I even picked the power adder that was most suited to not having to mess with it ( add a converter) etc. If they offered a bullet proof manual with a perfect clutch, I probably would have chosen it instead.

Agreed, I would never buy a muscle car or any sports car with an automatic transmission if I had the choice.

I agree with crimson, if Ford sources a paddle shift from Ferrari or Lamborghini I'm in for an auto, till then.. dang there are few things in life that compare to the fun of driving a good manual trans in a powerful car, and the mt82 in my car has never hung up or locked me out, and compared to the old manuals its light years ahead, its a shorty stock, it has internal stops and it shifts like butter. You can't replace the feeling of sitting at a light with one hand on the shifter and feeling the engine vibrate and occasionally shudder under your hand, or launching off that light and getting all excited for that redline-lift-clutch-second-dump-throttle.. moment where you and the car breathe and move as one.. or the heel toe downshift when you stick it perfect going into that turn and the up shift as you power out of it...

OR...that moment when you have an aftermarket clutch and you sit in 45 minutes of stop and go traffic with a 400 + hp muscle car doing nothing but wondering about how much clutch life you're sacrificing to have a "man's car"....

No, that does not bother me, its like worrying about the tires every time you launch or slide a corner, just the price of business, like killing spiders for women, and guys that drive automatic muscle cars!!! Ooohh cheap shot sorry!! Ha ha. We all have our preference, there is nothing wrong with either, just passionate people on both side of the fence. Just to prove no hard feelings us manual guys will climb over the fence to shake your hands, because we know you auto guys can't climb a fence due to bad hips and knees, because otherwise you'd own a manual!!

more like when is my leg gonna give out...

i love having a stick car but for me its just getting a little old. if we take the car anywhere and i decided i dont wanna drive or have a beer i cant because my wife cant drive a stick car for shit.

So then teach her!!! I just called my insurance company and got my discount for owning a stick shift!! That's a thing now!!

So insurance companies are giving Mustang owners a discount since they will have more frequent repair costs with manuals... pretty cool :P.

-Alex

Pretty much this.

If the mt82 wasn't such a piece of shit compared to the 6R80, I might have gone with it.

Just the fact is that the 6R80 is so much better than the mt82 I couldn't see buying a car knowing it had a piece if shit trans.

No new shifter, bushings, hoses, clutch, etc.... You shouldn't have to dump thousands into a trans to make it work or hold power.

You seemed to have already forgot these cars are complete turds in NA form. lmao.

Compared to what? All the 1000hp "street" cars around here?

I love this site, but I really hate seeing comments similar to this one so frequently. Must we constantly reiterate the fact these cars are complete shit compared to 1000 hp cars? Most production cars can't hold a candle to our cars much less a 1000 hp one.

It's an inside joke, relax.