Headed to the track tonight......

[Yagermeister]

Ditto Doug...ditto

[FastFordDriver]

The 1.52 60' is real good with a manual car - I'm usually around there and dip into the high 1.4x's on occasion but it's not that easy. What was the DA when you ran? Seems like the trap speed is low but maybe you're pulling a bunch of timing in the high heat? I think you'll be in the 6's easy once you get it figured out. ... and get some better air.

Originally Posted by J.Shoot Well the Boss did ok. We ran the following; 60'. 1/8 1.6. 7.17 1.64. 7.25 1.55. 7.11 1.56. 7.13 1.52. 7.10 1.61. 7.19 This was our first time on slicks. Looking for 6.90's and I know the car can do it, just need cooler weather I think. J.Shoot

[TrueStreetMotorSports.com]

Originally Posted by Doug1227 I've never heard someone claim that a centri was at a disadvantage to a PD due to IAT2's! Usually I hear the OPPOSITE!

Normal driving, hwy, stop lights I would agree. The air to air works very well at keeping cool during normal driving and stop and go traffic. But Air to air intercooler have to have air moving across it to cool. At the track sitting in line to make a pass, then doing a burn out, then stage and launch equals no air moving into the intercooler until you start moving. in 100* + days you can image how fast this happens


Air to water has water that is always moving and depending on how big your intercooler reserve tank is your IAT's might not gain more than 5-12* since it has to heat all the water.

Originally Posted by Yagermeister Ditto Doug...ditto

lol I did not figure you would understand

Next time you go to a race track and see a race car with a turbo,Procharger, 99% of them will always have a air to water system. For one they can pack it with ice and cool IAT below out side temps so they have time to do a burnout and stage before the car starts pulling timing because of heat

[BLK2012GT]

Originally Posted by TrueStreetMotorSports.com Normal driving, hwy, stop lights I would agree. The air to air works very well at keeping cool during normal driving and stop and go traffic. But Air to air intercooler have to have air moving across it to cool. At the track sitting in line to make a pass, then doing a burn out, then stage and launch equals no air moving into the intercooler until you start moving. in 100* + days you can image how fast this happens Air to water has water that is always moving and depending on how big your intercooler reserve tank is your IAT's might not gain more than 5-12* since it has to heat all the water. lol I did not figure you would understand Next time you go to a race track and see a race car with a turbo,Procharger, 99% of them will always have a air to water system. For one they can pack it with ice and cool IAT below out side temps so they have time to do a burnout and stage before the car starts pulling timing because of heat

WTF!?!?!?!? That makes complete sense, stop posting crazy talk true facts.

[re-rx7]

Originally Posted by TrueStreetMotorSports.com Normal driving, hwy, stop lights I would agree. The air to air works very well at keeping cool during normal driving and stop and go traffic. But Air to air intercooler have to have air moving across it to cool. At the track sitting in line to make a pass, then doing a burn out, then stage and launch equals no air moving into the intercooler until you start moving. in 100* + days you can image how fast this happens Air to water has water that is always moving and depending on how big your intercooler reserve tank is your IAT's might not gain more than 5-12* since it has to heat all the water. lol I did not figure you would understand Next time you go to a race track and see a race car with a turbo,Procharger, 99% of them will always have a air to water system. For one they can pack it with ice and cool IAT below out side temps so they have time to do a burnout and stage before the car starts pulling timing because of heat

Tim nailed it.

[BLK2012GT]

Originally Posted by re-rx7 Tim nailed it.

That's Clint

[re-rx7]

My head was in my ass lol. Duh.

[Doug1227]

YES, a centri isn't getting any cooling effect when not moving, but it's also not generating any real heat like a PD. Granted that the centri isn't cooling anything in the lanes, but neither is the PD. Fluid is circulating, but there's no air movement across the heat exchanger, so the fluid just gets hotter and hotter (heat soak). Heat soak is going to be much more prominent on a PD car than a centri. At least on the centri it starts cooling as you go down the track and you're essentially starting with ambient. On a PD, you're circulating hot ass water as you go down the track! LOL! I've had both and I think a PD makes a LOT more heat, both on the street and the track.

Edit: Obviously, a PD with an A/W with fans, huge reservoir, bag of ice, etc. will cool better, but that's not what ANY of them come with from the manufacturers, so that's a moot point. I'm talking about how they come in the kits.

[TrueStreetMotorSports.com]

Originally Posted by Doug1227 At least on the centri it starts cooling as you go down the track and you're essentially starting with ambient. B]

Not correct, when the pass/race starts you will start to get fresh air across the intercooler but you are in boost heat is even greater from that point on. There is no intercooler, watercooler on the market that will cool off to ambient temps once boost starts. Once in boost Intake air temps will continue to heat up until there is no boost present and air flow is run across the intercooler water or air to air for a giving amount of time.

[KungFuHamster]

my vortech car ET'ed and MPH'ed the same pass after pass with minimal cool down and no intercooler (on a 2V car 10 years ago). thats centrifugal efficiency.

so if the A/W is so much more efficient, then why do all the factory PD blower cars heat soak so much? the water is still circulating. but once the water heats up, then it can't absorb anymore heat. its the same as the A/A car sitting there with no air flowing over it. I watched a Cadillac CTS-V lose .4 and 7 mph due to heat soak on his 2nd pass. The car was down on power the whole time we were at the track due to heat soak. We all know this...terminators, lightnings, ZL1, etc.

The centrifugals are the more efficient blowers, and while the twin screws are more efficient than the roots and TVS blowers, they still generate more heat per lb of boost. it's always been that way.

[Doug1227]

Clint, what's your take on A/A vs. A/W as they come from the supercharger vendors? As they come in the kits?

[TrueStreetMotorSports.com]

Originally Posted by Doug1227 Clint, what's your take on A/A vs. A/W as they come from the supercharger vendors? As they come in the kits?

They both have there plus and minus, But Im a big fan of the Air to air of the prochargers, IAT are at ambient when driving anything over 25-30mph (no boost)

The air to water tend to run a little warmer but not much with water taking more time to remove heat once hot. Both systems are great in the own right.

the only reason for my earlier post was for testing we have done. I was not posting a Kenne Bell vs Procharger thread. Just how in extreme heat the air to air preforms poorly when run at the track, driving through staging lanes, waiting, staging, burnout, ect. No air flow during this time means no cooling equals high IAT's.

Think of it this way, The blower is like a hair dryer. They blow HOT HOT air, you take a aluminum box and stick the hair dryer in it your temps are going to rise. Basically with a air to air this is what is happening when no air flow is present.

So with a air to water intercooler. lets say we have water running in front of the hair drier before the air can get into the box. The water is going to prolong the heat for a short while. the water will also continue to rise but at a slower rate. it will also cool at a slower rate once airflow is present. Both will be hottest by the end of the race.

Here is a air to air without air being present



Here is a air to water, just going to take more time to heat up the water

[JDMLOL]

Originally Posted by TrueStreetMotorSports.com They both have there plus and minus, But Im a big fan of the Air to air of the prochargers, IAT are at ambient when driving anything over 25-30mph (no boost) The air to water tend to run a little warmer but not much with water taking more time to remove heat once hot. Both systems are great in the own right. the only reason for my earlier post was for testing we have done. I was not posting a Kenne Bell vs Procharger thread. Just how in extreme heat the air to air preforms poorly when run at the track, driving through staging lanes, waiting, staging, burnout, ect. No air flow during this time means no cooling equals high IAT's. Think of it this way, The blower is like a hair dryer. They blow HOT HOT air, you take a aluminum box and stick the hair dryer in it your temps are going to rise. Basically with a air to air this is what is happening when no air flow is present. So with a air to water intercooler. lets say we have water running in front of the hair drier before the air can get into the box. The water is going to prolong the heat for a short while. the water will also continue to rise but at a slower rate. it will also cool at a slower rate once airflow is present. Both will be hottest by the end of the race...

Great analogy. This may be a stupid question or idea. Do they make air to air with e-fans to move air through them while you're parked, doing burnouts, etc..

[TrueStreetMotorSports.com]

Originally Posted by JDMLOL Great analogy. This may be a stupid question or idea. Do they make air to air with e-fans to move air through them while you're parked, doing burnouts, etc..

this is a great idea and does work well. But the down side to having fans there is they move air effectively up to 35-45mph, after that they are a restriction and in the way of faster speeds. If the car was going to be a track car this would help on both air to air and air to water.

this also helps a ton!!!

[Toby]

The advantage of the air to water at the track is the ability to put ice in the reservoir an get the iat below ambient. Air to air you cannot do that without an inter cooler sprayer.