Trust me Re-RX7, I get your argument but, I too had a reality check. If you look at performance numbers only, there are plenty of cars that are WAY over-priced when you look at just 0-60 and 1/4 mile times.

When I was on Corvette forum people were comparing the Stingray to a Porsche Cayman. WTF a Stingray will annihilate a Cayman in anything, looks are subjective. But all of those performance stats aside, nothing you can do can buy the experience of driving a Cayman. I was with a buddy that went to test drive a Cayman and I was fortunate enough that the salesmen allowed me to go after my friend did and I can say, not that I would pay that much for a Cayman, hey, I understand the price point now.

Just like there is no way to mod a Camaro to have the same experience as driving a GTR. That's what they are selling, to those that care. The people that want the experience of driving a Camaro around a track that beats a GTR is well worth the $70k to those that will buy it.

Long answer short, there are merits that you simply can't put into a measurable statistic. And those that are aware of it, will pay for it happily :)

-Alex

hey!!!! FUCK YOU! lol

Maybe they were personally trying to piss you off? Cause it seems to be working

:favorites37:

I'll be sure to tell you that in person tomorrow night too

Lol, fanboys. I guess people can't appreciate a fast car other than a ford or mustang product. Frankly, if the 1LE existed when I was looking at a GT, I would be in that because it would clean my NA Mustang (at that time's) clock on the track.

It's hard to talk when you are grasping for air..

While he's laughing in your face you big pussy. :popcorn:

Time to go 0-401? lmao

You're talking about grappling right? :eek:


LMAO

That all depends on how wide you can open your mouth...

Damn I'm not going to be alone with Steve anymore. He's turned into a creepy old man. I thought you bought a caddy not a :van:

Where the candy is always free

Shouldn't you be somewhere putting a stripper through medical school she will never graduate from?

Would have been cool if he got the wagon version of the cts-v, then it would be called the Rape Wagon.

Lol, nice!

You didn't think this through before hitting submit reply huh?

I'm your huckleberry..

First time out, I was quicker than my buddies 1LE. :)

I've driven his car. Stock vs stock, his was more composed, but my car is waaaaaay better than stock. In fact, neither one of us is anywhere close to stock suspension. Both cars are daily drivers first and foremost. I haven't driven his since he's done coilovers, poly subframe bushings, and we both are upgrading brakes significantly. I know who's winning this friendly arms war, the parts suppliers. :) We both are completely comfortable with our choices. Pony cars are not God's gift to the track, but holy hell is it fun to the hp and torque fly. In any case, its all-American muscle and more brute force and V-8 exhaust note than high dollar refinement. I can respect that. I wish the Dodges would play too, but they are just too damn heavy.

Our next event is Apr 12-13 on the 3.1 @ Cresson. Game on!!!

Same here, but that's my biggest gripe against the 1LE . It took Chevy 3 yrs to play ball with Ford.

One of these days I'm going to make it to an ECR open track day. When I do, I'll drag my roommate and his SS along too. Would love to sync up with some people here to see what we got on the track.

Truth. Chevy was riding the looks and straight line performance for a while before the road course/auto-x guys wanted more. I am a fan of speed, not brand which is why I love most things that are fast. To people who can't get over brand loyalty, enjoy being second place.

No... The camaro still has the rear seat, as the article states, the rear seat is the brace in the car... I purchased my 2011 mustang and compared it to the 2011 camaro.. The Brembo pkg out performed the 2011 camaro brakes in every test. As for poor engineering in the camaro.. what's step one for replacing the heater core? 1. Remove windshield. .. yep, why? The screws are located under it? Start looking and doing research, there are class action law suits against GM for the convertible top failures, the pos after thought sun roof that deforms the roof and leaks flooding the back seat, ask any owner how many times they had to re index the windows, since 2010 only 1 of my friends that own camaros had had less than 4 visits for service work. The engineering at GM is so shoestring, the cry since early 2000's from leadership has been "build it for less" ask anyone that works or used to work there.

I'll leave this here for some light reading http://www.camaro5.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=70

We also know as much as we don't like to admit it, somewhere north of 90% of all racing takes place in a straight line, that is where cars reputations are earned, and we all know if you wanted a track car you'd get a lotus like everyone else.

I do see some of you are trying to turn over a new leaf. So we can agree to disagree, that's fine, I'd much rather sit over a beer or steak and talk face to face, you can't tell inflection and people take too much the wrong way online

Is there a factory Mustang that can legitimately compete with a GTR or 911 Turbo around a track?

-Alex

Back when the boss 302 leguna seca first came out it beat the 08 gtr's leguna seca lap time. Now we all know of course the gtr has gotten faster since then, but comparing the 08 gtr to the 12' Boss 302 LS is a better comparison; considering the gt-r had 480hp and the boss had 440. If you look just below boss's time you will also find the 06 GT3's time also. The 12' carrera s just barely pulls a faster time than the boss. So to answer question, year for year there probably isn't a mustang that can touch those two; but when they both have around the same hp the boss can put up a pretty good fight. Here's the link btw > http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/laguna_seca.html

No doubt most racing in the USA takes place in straight lines. I would say it isn't as large as you think. Auto-X is taking over the mainstream masses for accessible racing. Particualriy because you don't have to have a fast or modified car. I know there is bracket racing in the 1/4 mile, but it is embarassing to take a 4 cyl car that runs 16 second 1/4 miles to a competetive track. However, that 4 cyl car could run an auto-x course in a stock class. I'd say give it time and auto-x will be the next big thing. Demand is going up for cars that can handle versus go fast in a straight line. Like it or not, car manufactures will build those cars (hence why the FR-S/BRZ is doing so well right now without any force induction).

Also, go to a track HPDE event and you will see a ton of American Muscle. Of all the ones I run it Texas, Corvette's & Mustang's make up over 50% of the cars on the track. The reason is simple, parts are cheap. Replace a part on any exotic/european car and you will pay 2-3x's the prices as our American cars. Given the horsepower these cars push and the aftermarket, it is a great platform to build a track attack car out of. This was a natural progression for Chevy to build this car.

Drag racing will always be part of American culture, but times are changing.

There is a big difference in the GT3's of 2006 and the latest edition. Whole platform changes for that car, but the GTR is essentially just been retuned and reworked since 2008. Plus, a 911 Carrera S is not GT3, totally different cars on the track. (Not trying to sound like a dick, promise)

What most people need to get over is realizing that this $75K American track car is outrunning Japanese (costing excess of $115K) and European Exotics (costing excess of $125K) that were designed to be track monsters. There are flaws with the Z/28's design in some areas, but this will be the cheapest turn-key racecar/street car that can be beat up on, broken, and fixed. Virtually, a well off middle class American can now compete with rich owning exotics. I just hope Ford responds by trying to hit a home run.

Bu bu but... the heater core!

-Alex

Well you can purchase direct from ford the boss 302R.. before that it was the fr500 .. The camaro does surprising well for it self in corners, and you can attempt to make for 500 I run of me for pointing out simple design flaws but if your design team screws up not knowing the windshield attach points... Imagine what you can't see. Look at the news how many GM cars are recalled now? How much did they hide? if you like GM (apparently) great. slap some expensive parts on a camaro and it can corner.. but it's built on poor design and engineering. You can only lie and cover that up for so long

I agree autocross is getting bigger. We as Americans are learning corners are fun. But I still think it's illegal straight line racing 9 to 1 over corners

Truth, such a large issue. Not like those simple things that break on Mustangs...like my blown piston lol.

I am new-ish to domestic car forums (my mustang was my first American car) & they are horrible usually about fanboys. This has been the first one that in have found that has people who appreciate speed/fast cars no matter the brand. I just hope this thread doesn't grt deleted like the Z06 thread because fanboys can't get over their preferences.

Valid points, but neither of those cars are street legal and are built without VINS so no one can attempt to register one.

Also, I don't recognize anything on the street as racing. All fun and games until an innocent bystander gets hurt and then you are up on manslaughter/murder. The local track here draws decent people for test and tune drag nights, but when an auto-c event goes on there is a ton of people too at a better ratio then 9:1.

Right oh and cheap Chinese transmissions. I wonder what's more important to a performance car, a heater core or a transmission lol? Hmmmm.

-Alex

I agree with the street racing comments. But it happens all the time. I say take it to the track and really try to but it happens, and that's true neither are street legal, but that's not what he specified!! Ha ha! I mean let's face it we are all here because we are fans of the car, but I appreciate all cars, of GM's fast cars. I like the vette. Proper platform, still respect the gnx!! And I'd love a cts-v Wagon it's a giant fu to everyone!! The camaro though was a function follows design vehicle, and I hate it when GM does that, because it take a lot of Money to build that correctly, and they just didnt

And dom you can think the grass is greener on the other side. Truth is it brown, with weeds, and oil stains

The most important comment in this thread is when you commented about being able to talk in person over a beer. Like you, I'd much rather do that and I take nothing personal from your posts :). I don't like everything GM but, for the performance this car produces, it's a big achievement IMO. I'm sure the heater cole is a bitch and a half to replace but, that's no reason to deny the performance aspect of this car in my opinion.

-Alex

I like fast cars. I don't care what brand name the car wears. If it's fast and done tastefully, I'm a fan.

As for street racing, its been happening since the turn of the 20th century and will always happen. Personally, I don't go to meets to race. I keep my ass in the parking lot. I think it's the riskiest time to race.

But I'm not going to get on my soapbox about street racing. It's going to happen and always will. It can be done in a safer manner in a deserted area out in the middle of nowhere, very late with a clear line of site and no traffic at all.

I don't make it to too many meets, and when I do I have my 10 year old with me, but we are going to try to make it to more. At the heart of it we are car people, a car is more to us than basic transportation, because of that we get attached to our beliefs, opinions, and preferences. And when we express them we like to feel the other people heard them, on line you can't see that. I have never known 2 adult car guys to not get along, even if one rolls up in an srt8 and one a cts-v.. oh we will troll the shit out of each other but still laugh it off at the end.

Steve, ever the adult and voice of reason. .. Don't believe me? All Old Response People Drive Caddies!!!

Everyone defending gm on here but drive mustangs lolololo

I have a mustang and a chevy truck so I can do both. I'm not buying a new mustang in a couple years, I'm getting a vette. After riding in Steve's V, I would rather have that, then the new mustang. You can sit on you soap box screaming about how great ford is but I have had many vehicles built by both. I can tell you all my chevy vehicles have been just as good as my fords. Only difference my chevy's always got better gas mileage.

Ive rode in V's. Just not for me. I like the G8 better.

Same here, I have the Mustang and a Toyota Tundra tows it. Honestly, if Toyota threw that 5.7 V8 in a RWD sports car that was halfway decent, I would be driving that.

Amen, bro. I agree completely. The car hobby is at the core of what this country is about, freedom and self expression. When the guys came from WWII, they needed a way to still get their thrills and relieve their stress (now known as PTSD). Industry was booming, the mechanics went to work at factories and started tinkering with cars.

While we all have our favorites or preferences, (some blindly so) the hobby as a whole binds us together. We all love cars and everything about them. I'm all for it bringing people together, but to tear people apart soley based on brand is nonsense.


And I'm okay with getting old. The V was the perfect way to start my mid-life crisis! lol

I own both, therefor I'm qualified to comment on the situation. :)

I love my 5.0, but unfortunately it's not a good fit for me at my current stage of my life with kids. I enjoy cruising with my family and the 5.0 doesn't work for that.

Amen!




I'm don't get how, but it's each to their own. :)