Track cars, don't meet the same safety standards as street cars.
Track cars can't be registered to be driven on the street.

The GS.R you are referring to, does it have the same amount of air bags, if any as the Z/28? Does it meet the same crash testing standards as the Z/28?

-Alex

So basically what your saying is that the Z28 is the baddest street car in its price range? Im gna ask you this....How many people actually take their cars to the track. Not just people you know personally but in general. Very very few. Track Fees are alot more then Drag strip fees. Its nice to know it can circle the track in German in so many par secs but at the end of the day most people that buy these will use them on the street. If you run across a your buddy who just bought a new shelby for the same money your not gna say " follow me to the track".

Fact of the matter is that GM beat a car with "outdated" technology, wider and track appropriate tires, and more power. Yay?

The SRA Boss LS ran all of it's times on streetable "R"-ish compound tires in a 255/285 setup.

I never claimed the Z/28 was the baddest car ever. I just posted this thread for people interested in the car. That was it. I'm a car enthusiast and like several types of cars, not just Fords. Plenty of people measure performance based on track times. If the Mustang went around a track faster than a Camaro, how many people here would have bashed the car?

-Alex

Were you expecting them to beat the car using less power, technology from the 90s and winter tires?

-Alex

How many people here would be interested in that car? NOne would have bashed and none are bashing the car. We are just saying for the money there are better options as far as power and speed are concerned. Like I said earlier GM owes the Taxpayer a ton of money and they are making niche cars. Why?

The fact they had to use 305mm tires, a 7.0 liter engine and alot of other stuff speaks highyy of the boss to me.

I like the niche car thing because its pushing the entire industry.

I totally agree with the second comment. 305 all 4 corner, LS7, stripped down....I have seen all this before! It's nice performance car, but it's not impressive at all!!!

Now take the Boss LS with all the creature comforts, looks, exclusivity, and performance...that's impressive. And keep in mind that these LS owners will have been enjoying their car and bragging rights for 3 yrs come March 2014 (Z/28 expected shipments). And they are gearing up for the next gen Mustang in less 10 months from the Z/28 release.

Who said they had to use an LS7, carbon brakes, or anything else to beat a Boss? If anything, it sounds like they wanted the car to humiliate a Boss. Like the Chief Engineer in the video said, they are aiming higher than a Mustang based on the list of cars he said he wants the Z28 to be mentioned with. And the fact that they are using top end Corvette materials just confirms it.

-Alex

ROFL. Okay so the Z/28 can be had with the same creature comforts as a Boss, looks are subjective, going to also be exclusive and the performance kills a Boss 302 and that is NOT impressive!?

So exact same criteria but it's not impressive lol. You're sounding extremely hypocritical now. If you just don't like the Camaro, I would accept that answer. But since both cars have the same stats you like with the Boss, and deem it not impressive is just sounding trolling.

-Alex

Removal of Sound deadening and Nav are some nice features that a ton of people care about, which is why thousands of buyers chose a M3 or C63 at this price level.

Read my earlier posts. It's not impressive because this level of performance is seen in the Continental Tire race series from the Camaro....and the Mustang too. I already knew what it can do! They have had the LS7 since 2006! And it took GM 3 yrs to finally catch up. None of that is impressive, period!!! I'm glad they finally caught the hell up! Stop implying what I'm saying and read exactly what I typed.

Do you really think the demographic of people that want to buy this car want sound deadening or navigation?

I did read what you typed. I even quoted it and replied exactly to it. There were no implications.

-Alex

What re-rv7 said, exactly.

Had Ford spent as much time and development on the Boss on top of the GT as GM did solely on the Z/28 over the SS, the Boss would most likely be able to hang with it damn near to the millisecond. I did read somewhere that GM originally planned to release the Z/28 in 2011, but unforeseen circumstances apparantly came about. Even then, the Z/28 uses an already in production engine, an already in production transmission, and already in production magnetic ride IRS, and new fancy R compound tires, which aren't street legal. So it's not like GM custom built this car, from the design board forward, specifically to race and beat the Boss. I think a lot of people see it as a built from scratch car, with everything made for the car, when it's not.

And I asked that question on MotorTrend. Who is the demographic? GM has never announced it. It's a tweener. There is no clear cut demographic. We can only go by performance spec and price point. Talk to a Porsche, M3, C63, Vette owner with magnetic shocks, or even an SL owner. Simple comfort like sound deadening means a lot to them. Remember that individuals that can afford a $60k car usually aren't young. They are older guys. A little comfort matters.

Very fair argument Derek. That is a plus to the Boss 302, everything was built specifically for that car. The Z/28 does use leftover ZO6 and ZR1 parts. I think the only new parts are the aero.

-Alex

Interesting you bring that up. Being a Corvette owner for several years, I was disappointed that they had to cater to all the people whining about comfort this and seats that. Made the weight of the car increase, then people complained about the weight.

To me there are two different Corvette buyers. People that like to buy boutique cars, and actual car enthusiasts. Everyone that loved the performance, only complained about the seats. Everything else was neglible. But of course the enthusiasts will always be far outnumbered by the majority of people that simply buy/lease cars.

Oh and there were several threads started about young guys(25-40year olds) ordering C7s. So young people can absoutely afford a $60. Hell, there's a member of this board that posted about maybe buying a GTR which is a lot more expensive:).

I think the way the market is shifting, is that across the board, people want cars to be more of a gadget to play with instead of drive. Performance is so close at the top echelon of cars, that the real differences come from brand loyalty or gimmicks. It's no secret that Chevrolet wanted the Corvette to appeal to a younger crowd and they achieved that with sacrificing performance. The C7 could have been faster but adding over 100lbs of crap most people won't use hurt what could have been.

-Alex

Well maybe we'll see more of these weight reduced track versions. The best thing about the Camaro at this point is they offer one for every type of driver/person at numerous price points. Now that's impressive!

That's just the way I see it, as unbiased as I can. You can kind of argue that same point for the Boss, but not as heavily and holding of an argument, Since Ford took what they had already done with the GT and expanded on it.

But I will say that I don't think GM can have enough damn models of the Camaro out! Holy shit there are so many!

Base, RS, SS, 1LE, ZL1, Z/28

Might as well make the Camaro it's own damn brand name as it has enough models to support a whole dealership.

Perhaps you can educate me since I don't know any history on Mustangs but, I would assume the original Boss 302 was the same concept on the current model. Just a more track-oriented version of a GT. Educate me if I am wrong :)

Chevy does have too many damn models of that and the Corvette. It's like buying a 911. I miss the days when you either wanted the car or you didn't.

-Alex

I personally prefer the Viper's method. You get one car, or you get a better version. You either want the car or you don't lol.

-Alex

It was funny reading this whole thread. I understand that a lot of people here only like Ford's, however, it's sad to put down another car manufaturer based on opinions.

I saw someone say something about GM owing the taxpayer's money. Last time I checked they have already paid back the money they borrowed. Also, don't go saying as if Ford never needed to borrow money because they did too, a couple years before GM and Chrysler. Everyone was hurting back then.

I also saw comments about needing more power to win. You cannot compare power alone to see which is the obvious faster car. Power to weight ratio makes that difference. By now I'd think that everyone knows the Camaro is going to be the heavier car until they re-design the chassis/suspension (which was borrowed from another car to get the Camaro going)

As for the R compound tires. How many people here drive on R compound? Quite a bite the last time I checked. Also if it they were track only tires it wouldn't be allowed on the street which I am pretty sure the z28 is.

I do love this one the best though. Last time I checked Mustang had the same number of models. When you went to price one out you have a V6 base, V6 Premium, GT Base, GT Premium, Boss, and GT500. That also doesn't include Roush and Saleen that you buy from the dealers. Those are unlisted vehicles that you can order direct from Ford. I understand that most of those are the same car with different options. But Ford sells them as different models'. You also cannot include 1LE as a model as it is an option on the SS. Just like the Track Pack or Recaro's are. One other way to look at it then is the RS = V6, SS = GT, ZL1 = GT500, Z/28 = Boss. So where are all of these extra models?

You do have me on that. I guess what I was saying those is that all of those "model" are actually badged on the cars. Mustangs are badged as a V6, GT, Boss, or GT500. You don't see someone running around with "V6 premium" on their car, or "400A Package", etc. That's what I was getting at.

It's a different way. I do like Ford's way a little better. GM gives you everything with few options which makes the cost start high. Ford allows you to get as basic as you want and option it out. The only thing I don't like with Ford is the things they wont let you get unless you buy a Premium. For example. I was very mad that I paid 2500 for the track pack but I cannot get the track apps unless I pay another 4000 for a premium. To me that is bullshit. There are some other options that don't make sense that you can only get with a premium.

Stock is worth crap. Still owe us about 15 billion

Chevy sucks. So y'all can EABOD.

Agreed. I think that Track Apps should have been an option for base GT cars. I would have gladly paid another $1,200 to get that in my base car, because I know everything is already there for me to use it, just need the gauge cluster.

Leave the leather seats and the nav unit for the premium people.

The government still has billions of dollars worth of Chevy stock that was part of the government bail out. Chevy is trying to force the government to sell it at a loss of billions. So yes they do owe us money and the stock we are selling is at a loss that we will never get back. Its good Obama accounting.

You know the Z/28 is a great car when people have to scrape for excuses like this to not like it. I've never been to a GM board meeting but, I do assume that a Camaro was not one of the board members.

-Alex

I love when Gm/lsx lovers come on here. LOL its a great car for now. A few years from now i will be something else. Great track car but since i dont track that often, I would spend my money on a shelby and drag Z28 ass errwhere.

What's wrong with liking cars from other manufacturers? So far as I have seen, no one is bothered by you liking imports but, this is a Ford forum.

-Alex

Never said it wasn't a great car. It's doing what it was built to do, and that's tear the track up. But it's all in retrospect as to what exactly GM is trying to accomplish with this car.

Ok, I stand corrected. There is still 15+ billion in stock that hasn't been sold that wont be 100% recovered. However, I found this article talking about how much would be lost if there wasn't a bailout due to job lost and it actually makes sense, provided it is fairly accurate of course. http://wardsauto.com/blog/dear-taxpa...epaid-interest

Dom, just let the thread roll. I rather read this bailout stuff rather than yet another thread of you and RX7 butting heads about everything under the sun.

You do realize the other thread was created so that people that want to discuss the bailout can have their own thread so you would NOT have to see it in this thread right?

This reminds me of being in pre-K and seeing the children trying to force a square shape into a triangle opening. We have an Off Topic section and an Other Cars section but oddly enough discussing GMs bailout is appropriate in a the Other Cars section in a thread about a Camaro. Very interesting.

-Alex

It's better than reading you and RX7 arguing about anything.

... since trolling is allowed, I'll just unsubscribe to this thread.

-Alex

You're speaking to one of the biggest trolls on the board. And a damn good one.

Trolling on DFW50's? Say it aint so!

Just because you're so easy to get going with your over the top womanly kneejerk reactions doesn't mean I'm a good troll. :winner_first_h4h:

A couple of times I wasn't sure of you were just that dumb...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08E1aQeV3mQ

-Alex