Exactly. I've had my days at the track 10 years ago when I lived there every weekend. I could careless now. Sure i'll go every now and then but I'm not going to try to break records and shit. Hence why I haven't bought another set of wheels and slicks. My car is a fast fun street car and that's what I wanted.

So the thread has now come full circle. We saw this on the dyno charts. So what was all the back and forth banter for lol?

-Alex

That's a damn gd post. I don't live my life a qtr at a time. I'm not chasing a magic time slip.

With you on the bottle maybe. I am not a street racer but a couple of months ago I offered to meet you and line up at Ennis. I showed, ran 10's, and you never bothered to introduce yourself and take that offer up. The way I see it is you spent a lot of money on an 11 sec. car. History isn't on your side when making claims.

Like I mentioned in this post:
http://www.dfw50s.com/showpost.php?p=48018&postcount=6

....I need more data before saying it is worth spending the extra $1K on a CJ setup. I'll update the sticky as we capture more info. Someone else's dyno numbers don't provide me the data I need.

There's no point of arguing with you about your car and my car on the streets. One you know everything and anything about these coyotes (ok) and two you don't street race. Prime example my car is faster then what it appears at the track, I race a person in this group and we ran the same time and mph at the track. But we did a 30 roll starting in 2nd gear in mexico and I walked him like he was standing still. It wasn't even a close race. But I expected that since I make 100 rwhp then he does. So if we did ever race on the streets I don't think your car has a chance against mine. Sorry that's my opinion so take it with a grain of salt.

Settle it on the hwy with a go pro.

LOL it won't happen. He doesn't street race. Which is fine cause I don't track race only.

Well at least throw an invitation to him. Be courteous sir lol.

I'm pretty sure by saying his car can't beat mine on the streets is an invitation in itself.:hidesbehindsofa::leghump:

But lets get back on topic of the two IM.:word:

I think things would have went smoother had they just contributed to the conversation vs bashing and acting like king dick.

Maybe to you. Maybe to other people they have already decided it is or isn't worth it just based on this. Assigning a dollar value to horsepower is on an individual and case-by-case scenario. So even when you draw your own conclusion, other people might not feel the same as you.

That's fine and I respect that. But as you already stated, the CJ makes more power than the Boss. I really don't understand what the problem is here lol.

-Alex

I will say they do know what they are talking about to a point. Not everyone here drag races. And that's all they are baseing their knowledge off of. To me unless you are trying to get the most hp out if your car the CJ isn't worth the money over the boss manifold and a TB.

I have far too much to loose getting caught street racing or killing someone else doing it. I would expect someone with a new kid to consider the consequences.

Same offer I made before, I'll line up anytime at the track.

Really? Not a matter of being a dick. Jeff made a snide comment, as usual, and he got it in return.

A repeat of what I posted.
http://www.dfw50s.com/showpost.php?p=48134&postcount=39

I have no issue outside of some of the comments. My whole thing is don't rely solely on dyno numbers. CAI's are a perfect example, Jeff's car is a perfect example.


Explain to everyone what data you have accumulated street racing that shows the CJ intake isn't worth the extra money?

You can get hurt or worst at the track to. You pick and choose your areas where you want to race on the street.

And I made a remark cause your buddy misread what I wrote and said a shitty comment.

And from what I seen from other cars there really isn't that much gain for an extra 500-1100 dollars. The price varies cause people might buy TB for the boss manifold.

And actually my car isn't a perfect example. Like I posted before I race a person in this group who ran the same time as me. But when we raced on the street I killed him by a lot of car lengths.

Man that wbt guy has a hard on for you for some reason. I like how he keeps comparing his auto stall car that he races every weekend and has set it up for that to you car which was just finished and has only been to the track once. That's a good comparison.

Thanks mom.

Because racing on a track is without consequences or safety hazards. I feel sorry for people that are scared too enjoy life to the point where they have to try to critique others for doing so.

-Alex

I see both sides of it. You both have very solid points. I just think you are both doing different things.

I like WBT's technical side of posting, but it's heavily track based, which is cool, but doesn't apply to everyone as far as use goes. I DO agree with WBT it's going to be up to the individual owner if the CJ intake is going to be worth the $1k, or settle for the cheaper Boss.


Side note - Jeff, solid posts and well done on keeping your cool bro! :)

I'd like to see the time slips on both those runs. 1 1/10 of a second isn't what I would call measurable evidence.

As long as I have been around cars, the ONLY method of determining the power output of an engine, is a dyno. What else are you using to determine power levels?

-Alex

Let's keep this on topic with racing/cars. Personal attacks will not be tolerated. We're all adults here, lets behave as such.

The track is a good way to but to a point.

How will a track tell you how much power an engine generates?

-Alex

My bad misread what you typed.

I figured you did, no worries :).

-Alex

He is using the tried and true way of measuring performance by using track data. Datalogging, ET's, MPH, 0-60, shifts, temps, etc.

WBT is correct in saying that dyno results mean very little. How the car performs in it's intended envoirment is really the only proper way to determine accurate results.

Some of us old folk were doing this long before the use of dynos were the norm. I use to tune my blower cars the old fashion way with a timing light, reading plugs, fuel pressure and checking tire prints. We had no idea (nor did we care) what the car made at the tires. It was how the car performed.

Now that dynos are everywhere and technology is common place that most people don't know how to work on their cars anymore without a programmer in their hands that the dyno numbers have become more about bragging rights or measuring how a car "should" run.

It happens all the time a car makes great power on the dyno and doesn't run like it should according to what one thinks it should. Same goes for the other way, some cars dyno like ass but run like a scalded ape on the street.

It all comes down to a solid tune, a proper set up and a driver who knows how to optimize all of it to take advantage of it.

No need for this info.

Yet I crushed a car that runs the same mph that makes less power then me. I'm pretty sure I would pick up mph if I was able to launch the car at higher rpms instead of at 3k rpms.

He sure does cause he is only quoting me now and no one else. I must be his type. LOL:hitit:

What about measuring horsepower and torque(which is what this thread is about)?

-Alex

It does to an extent. If you have ever been to ffw you will see everyone of the guys running fast cars with their lab tops out after every race adjusting crap. The dyno is generally a base line but for true tuning you need to data log on the street or track and adjust from there. That's where you will get your best tune for all around performance.

No need for this info.

For future reference, can I expect the same arbitrary commentary if another two similar parts are being compared for measuring power output?

-Alex

Yes, the original topic was comparing the two intakes to see which performed better. Where it went astray is difference of opinions of different driving/racing preferences.

You mentioned dynos. Dynos are merely a tool to get a car tuned. But guys like WBT are constantly tinkering with their own tunes to optimize the set up for the track. Where the dyno subject loses focus is where people use the dyno as a measuring stick for performance. Peak numbers mean SQUAT.

Dyno numbers can be manipulated in many ways on a dyno be it settings, load or whatever else have you. A number of other things can effect it as well, weather, trans type, gearing, convertors and so on.

Just because car A makes more power than car B, doesn't mean its faster. There are other factors involved, suspension, weight, driving style, auto vs manual and so on. There is FAR more to it all than just peak dyno numbers.

This is post #7 on the first page.

Yup.

-Alex

Not sure how derailed this thread will be in the morning but I expect it to be just as "entertaining" as it has been. You guys have a good night.

-Alex

No worries. It's just a discussion. We're all here for the same reason, just doing it different ways. Have a good nights rest. :)

No need for this info.

You forgot the larger plenum, especially in the rear, which provides room for the full bellmouths on all the runners, which the Boss does not have. This is the most important thing.

Well I haven't drag raced my car since June of 2012, but I made some 180 MPH runs on an unprepared surface which other than being rougher than the typical highway is no different than what you're talking about. Lots of blown cars couldn't keep up with me in a full mile. Now be careful, remember what happened the last time you mouthed off about how you were going to beat everyone.

You want some street action do you? You REALLY sure that is what you want? What's the excuse going to be when you lose there?

I race cars, not engines. Horsepower is only a part of the big picture.

Well rested. Looks like everyone has calmed down :)

I agree with everything you are saying.

No one is disagreeing with that.

-Alex