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View Full Version : Shaun@ AED explains #8 failures.


Grandpa
10-15-2012, 04:41 PM
What do you think?




Just a little more info (nothing too technical) on what's going on these days with regards to Coyote engine failures.

Those engine builders who have seen these kind of engine failures are keenly aware the problem is a LEAN condition at WOT. This is evident by the type of piston damage seen. Spark knock creates a sharp break in the piston, lean conditions melt the piston.

Ford has adopted what others in the industry have used for quite a while. Lean A/F to create a 'broader' torque curve.

Below is a dynograph of an Twin Turbo Mercedes E63 on both the Stock tune and aftermarket.
Note the flat TQ curve of the stock tune and check out the crazy lean Air Fuel!
http://ecutuninggroup.com/files/2011/09/Mercedes-CLS63-AMG-Twin-Turbo-Dyno2.jpg

This is the EXACT same thing Ford programed into the Copperhead Coyote/Roadrunner ECU's.

In our case it's triggered by the Torque Calculations. As we reach the TQ limits in the tune, the ECU pulls fuel to create a 'broad' torque curve.

How do they not blow up the engines you may wonder?
Exhaust temps are monitored and in the case of our Fords, Cat enrichment is initiated at a given exhaust temp to combat Cat failure.

Below is a screenshot of a STOCK 2012 5.0 with this condition in full view:
Yellow line is COMMANDED Lambda and as it approaches 1.0 (14.1 Air Fuel) Fueling enrichment kicks in to save the Cats from damage (inadvertently saving the motor as well).
So why don't we see this on a chassis dyno? Check out the time it took for the lean condition to start....when was the last time you saw a WOT dyno run last 15+ seconds?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v662/91PONY/Stock50LogSnapshot.png

AED and their tuning partners found this late last year (Dec 2011). Once the offending Tune parameter was found we started testing on my own 5.0 with E85 in the tank to insure against any potential engine damage. Compression tests were done pre and post fix as well.
Further investigation showed more ways in which this lean WOT condition was triggered, but instead of investigating each one individually we found the commanded fueling for these conditions and modified it correctly.

As of Jan 2012 ALL AED tunes have this 'fix', as well as our tuning partners/buddies and ANY tuner that has called me and requested this information.
Of the hundreds of 5.0 tunes sent out between all of these tuners, not ONE has had an engine failure since the 'fix' has been implemented.

Some of my tuning partners have requested I refrain from posting specific technical data on these public message boards, but I prefer to have a more informed customer base.

03MachMe
10-15-2012, 05:01 PM
Good to know. was reading about a number 8 failure last night on SVTP and it kinda scared me not going to lie lol

Grandpa
10-15-2012, 05:20 PM
Good to know. was reading about a number 8 failure last night on SVTP and it kinda scared me not going to lie lol

I'm right there with you on it. Everyone has been giving me crap about my quiet, stock car, but I'm just doing my research before doing anything. If you read the internet too much, you'd think these cars are ticking time bombs! lol

03MachMe
10-15-2012, 05:25 PM
I think for now if anything I'm going to the Procal installed at teh dealer to keep the warranty

Grandpa
10-15-2012, 05:31 PM
I think for now if anything I'm going to the Procal installed at teh dealer to keep the warranty

I thought about that too. After looking into it, I don't think it's worth the money in my opinion. Not for what you get out of it. I'd just rather keep it stock until I decided to get a real tune rather than messing with the dealer at all and the minimal gains for the high cost.

BLK2012GT
10-15-2012, 05:35 PM
Steve just mod your car and tune it at TS and be done with it and fall in love with your car all over again.

Midnight11
10-15-2012, 07:06 PM
I think for now if anything I'm going to the Procal installed at teh dealer to keep the warranty

dont worry about it we have a 13!:favorites37:

Toby
10-15-2012, 08:32 PM
Steve just mod your car and tune it at TS and be done with it and fall in love with your car all over again.

Not a single 5.0 running one of our tunes, have dealt with a single issue...

Grandpa
10-15-2012, 09:00 PM
Steve just mod your car and tune it at TS and be done with it and fall in love with your car all over again.

I am, just deciding the right way to go about it. This is my process, I research everything, it's just how I do things. lol. :)

Not a single 5.0 running one of our tunes, have dealt with a single issue...

That's really good to know. I'm trying to decide which way to go and get as much information as I can about the #8 failures.

Truestreet is always my choice to go with when I can afford it, you know that, but unfortunately shop prices have gotten really high, not just you guys, but all shops.

I'm waiting to see what AED's pricing is, but I can't say I'm excited about doing email tuning even though it is street dataloged tuning which is good. I'd much rather have Sean tune it if I can.

Midnight11
10-15-2012, 09:08 PM
Not a single 5.0 running one of our tunes, have dealt with a single issue...

i read that ford called #8 bama bulletin for american muscle lol

Grandpa
10-15-2012, 09:12 PM
i read that ford called #8 bama bulletin for american muscle lol

I've read a lot of stories about popped motors from Bama. I wouldn't let them tune my car for free. lol.

Grandpa
10-15-2012, 09:39 PM
AED custom tunes with street datalogging is $200 bucks. Pretty reasonable. Better price than I was expecting.

Midnight11
10-15-2012, 09:42 PM
thats the going rate... lund is the same

Grandpa
10-15-2012, 09:46 PM
thats the going rate... lund is the same

Lund is still having #8 issues.

BLK2012GT
10-15-2012, 09:47 PM
AED custom tunes with street datalogging is $200 bucks. Pretty reasonable. Better price than I was expecting.

Spend the extra couple hundred dollars and get it done right.

Grandpa
10-15-2012, 09:57 PM
Spend the extra couple hundred dollars and get it done right.

How is it more "right"?

BLK2012GT
10-15-2012, 10:12 PM
How is it more "right"?

Instead of a email tune. It's better if they tune your car on the dyno

Midnight11
10-15-2012, 10:16 PM
Lund is still having #8 issues.

so has aed...

89gt-stanger
10-15-2012, 10:20 PM
Toby- To be fair, I am running a TS tune through an SCT tuner. I have been getting a P219a code saying that bank 1 has bad a/f. I do have cat delets though, so I kind of expected to have some issues with cel's anyways. The car runs great otherwise! Tell tim to PM me back so I can get the car in to have the gears looked at :)

Grandpa
10-15-2012, 10:23 PM
Instead of a email tune. It's better if they tune your car on the dyno

I could understand an issue with it if it was just a click file tune, rather than a street datalog tune. If you want to be technical, a street datalog tune would be more precise than a dyno tune because the datalogged tune would be from the envoirment the car is being driven in rather than a dyno room.


so has aed...

Did you not read the first post? lol.

Midnight11
10-15-2012, 10:26 PM
i skimmed it lol but i have no interest running his tune...

DirtyD
10-15-2012, 10:33 PM
i skimmed it lol but i have no interest running his tune...

I don't get why you are so against Shaun's tunes? He's proven and had others prove how precise and reliable his tunes can be.

There is a reason that Kevin also does street data logging for his tunes.

Midnight11
10-15-2012, 10:37 PM
im not against it. just rather go dyno tuned...

Yagermeister
10-15-2012, 10:55 PM
I agree with Steve. I went with AED and love it. The idle and part throttle performance along with fuel economy can't be beat...and you can't get that on a dyno no matter how good the tuner is. Two of my friends have AED tunes here in Dallas now as a result of them seeing the experience had and performance I received.

Midnight11
10-15-2012, 10:58 PM
I agree with Steve. I went with AED and love it. The idle and part throttle performance along with fuel economy can't be beat...and you can't get that on a dyno no matter how good the tuner is. Two of my friends have AED tunes here in Dallas now as a result of them seeing the experience had and performance I received.

just wondering but explain how a tuner here cant do idle and part throttle and one of those guys complains about mpg haha

5PointSlow
10-15-2012, 10:59 PM
My car is tuned by AED. The tunes I have were street tuned which is better than a dyno tune IMO. street tuning the car has a load on it and its real world driving conditions unlike the dyno. My Blower was tuned on the street and my car was the first Roush TVS tuned by Shaun. Shaun is an awesome guy to work with and well worth the money.

DirtyD
10-15-2012, 11:01 PM
I agree with Steve. I went with AED and love it. The idle and part throttle performance along with fuel economy can't be beat...and you can't get that on a dyno no matter how good the tuner is. Two of my friends have AED tunes here in Dallas now as a result of them seeing the experience had and performance I received.

Due to the amount I drive my car now that I have it, I want it to be as economical as possible when I'm not wanting to have fun driving. I will probably be getting either an AED time or getting with Kevin about some tunes. I don't plan on going crazy with power mods on the car, and having the ability for Shaun to do free updates for minor mods is a great plus.

Midnight11
10-15-2012, 11:03 PM
so shaun is 200 for how many tunes and free updates?

5PointSlow
10-15-2012, 11:06 PM
so shaun is 200 for how many tunes and free updates?

It was Eco tune, performance and drag tune when I originally was tuned by him. extra 50 for the idle lope. I think he now has the ECO stuff in the regular tunes now so im not sure. I was tuned by him back in February this year.

Midnight11
10-15-2012, 11:07 PM
ok thats cool i do want to install some "cams" lol

5PointSlow
10-15-2012, 11:09 PM
ok thats cool i do want to install some "cams" lol

heres my youtube http://www.youtube.com/user/2009YFZR?feature=mhee

have a couple cam tune vids on there with LT's. I think i have one with just the X pipe on lol

DirtyD
10-15-2012, 11:24 PM
IIRC, you get 3 tunes for the $200, eco, performance, and I think drag. I think it works by substitution for the idle lope tune by adding on an extra $50 to make it your third tune.

downtime!
10-15-2012, 11:37 PM
Mine m has been tuned since shortly after I bought her, both with a canned tune from VMP and a dyno tune from Gearheads. I've made a hundred or so passes with her, and no telling how many "Mexico" runs, with no issues whatsoever. I see the stories about the number 8 failures and have to wonder how inept the person doing the tuning is.

Grandpa
10-15-2012, 11:38 PM
I understand why some want the lope tune because it sounds cool, but it's not worth the long term damage is does and the drivability issues that come along with it.

5PointSlow
10-15-2012, 11:47 PM
I understand why some want the lope tune because it sounds cool, but it's not worth the long term damage is does and the drivability issues that come along with it.

There is no long term damage except to the cats. That's why tuners recommend off road mid pipes. Shaun said my high flows would last maybe 40k miles if I ran the tune everyday, but it's just a novelty. The lope tune is the same as the boss track key.

Grandpa
10-15-2012, 11:55 PM
There is no long term damage except to the cats. That's why tuners recommend off road mid pipes. Shaun said my high flows would last maybe 40k miles if I ran the tune everyday, but it's just a novelty. The lope tune is the same as the boss track key.

That's not entirely true. There is definetely some cylinder wash going on with the large amounts of unburned fuel. Any car that runs these tunes you can smell it, it's horrible. I also suspect there will be some long term valve spring damage as well.

BLK2012GT
10-16-2012, 12:09 AM
I understand why some want the lope tune because it sounds cool, but it's not worth the long term damage is does and the drivability issues that come along with it.

My lope tune here soon won't have any long term damages.:win:

Grandpa
10-16-2012, 12:11 AM
My lope tune here soon won't have any long term damages.:win:

Very true providing the proper springs are being used. I'm wondering how they are going to work with the variable timing in these cars. Should be interesting to see how it comes together.

BLK2012GT
10-16-2012, 12:14 AM
Very true providing the proper springs are being used. I'm wondering how they are going to work with the variable timing in these cars. Should be interesting to see how it comes together.

Ask Tim or Clint about that.

StormTrooper
10-16-2012, 12:21 AM
just wondering but explain how a tuner here cant do idle and part throttle and one of those guys complains about mpg haha

lol my mpg is better now that I disconnected the battery (i didn't do that when i went from the cam to the performance tune), but yes before that it was crappy and lunds was very crappy 13.4 average mpg. out of AED's tune and Lund, I would have to say so far I like AED's better :)

Grandpa
10-16-2012, 12:26 AM
Ask Tim or Clint about that.

LOL, didn't you research any of this stuff or you just writing a check like Ricky Bobby saying " I wanna go fast!" :win:

BLK2012GT
10-16-2012, 12:29 AM
LOL, didn't you research any of this stuff or you just writing a check like Ricky Bobby saying " I wanna go fast!" :win:

Pretty much the Ricky Bobby shit. LOL. No we talked about it but I'm a little drunk to remember exactly what they said. Tonight was bowling night. And we went out for Tam Wasson's B-day.

Grandpa
10-16-2012, 12:31 AM
Pretty much the Ricky Bobby shit. LOL. No we talked about it but I'm a little drunk to remember exactly what they said. Tonight was bowling night. And we went out for Tam Wasson's B-day.

Ahhh.Tam should be about ready for the seniors tour cleaning up the easy money. lol

When is the car going into the shop?

BLK2012GT
10-16-2012, 12:35 AM
Ahhh.Tam should be about ready for the seniors tour cleaning up the easy money. lol

When is the car going into the shop?

Friday morning. Hopefully they will be done with that fake 5.0 which is really a v-6 with fake cams that he is putting a D-1 on. If they get done with his car soon enough they will start on mine Friday.


And yes Tam is cleaning up in SASBA.

OG Fox
10-16-2012, 03:41 AM
just wondering but explain how a tuner here cant do idle and part throttle and one of those guys complains about mpg haha

Shaun@AED only tunes 5.0 and from what I read is the expert in doing so. A dyno tune is also great, and I know that True Street is the best in town. However, I would like to know what is more accurate when tuning, datalogging from the car's computer or using a sniffer out the tailpipe for afr?

46Tbird
10-16-2012, 05:51 AM
I've made a hundred or so passes with her, and no telling how many "Mexico" runs, with no issues whatsoever. I see the stories about the number 8 failures and have to wonder how inept the person doing the tuning is.

Ford is inept? lol

5PointSlow
10-16-2012, 07:16 AM
Shaun@AED only tunes 5.0 and from what I read is the expert in doing so. A dyno tune is also great, and I know that True Street is the best in town. However, I would like to know what is more accurate when tuning, datalogging from the car's computer or using a sniffer out the tailpipe for afr?

Data logging the widebands is more accurate. The sniffer will read almost a point higher than them.

Phuck Phace
10-16-2012, 09:29 AM
Friday morning. Hopefully they will be done with that fake 5.0 which is really a v-6 with fake cams that he is putting a D-1 on. If they get done with his car soon enough they will start on mine Friday.


And yes Tam is cleaning up in SASBA.

Hater

BLK2012GT
10-16-2012, 10:14 AM
Hater

Lol

TrueStreetTim
10-16-2012, 12:51 PM
Ask Tim or Clint about that.

The cam setup from COMP is a "no spring upgrade required" design.

TrueStreetTim
10-16-2012, 01:02 PM
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Very true providing the proper springs are being used. I'm wondering how they are going to work with the variable timing in these cars. Should be interesting to see how it comes together.

As shown in the build thread for the cams, we have the limiters required to make this happen. Toby, though, can explain the timing far better than I.

Grandpa
10-16-2012, 01:17 PM
As shown in the build thread for the cams, we have the limiters required to make this happen. Toby, though, can explain the timing far better than I.

The mechanical part I get, I was more thinking about the tuning aspect of it.

Toby
10-16-2012, 09:19 PM
Toby- To be fair, I am running a TS tune through an SCT tuner. I have been getting a P219a code saying that bank 1 has bad a/f. I do have cat delets though, so I kind of expected to have some issues with cel's anyways. The car runs great otherwise! Tell tim to PM me back so I can get the car in to have the gears looked at :)

That is more then likely a bad oxygen sensor. It seems to be a very common problem with these new 5.0's especially ones with headers. I am yet to come up with an opinion as to why this happens. Although I am leaning towards a quality problem with the sensors in general as i have seen brand new ford sensors bad right out of the box!


The biggest problem i have with any mail order tune even the ''street tune'' ones, is when you are out getting that log to send to the tuner, if something happens, and it goes lean or begins to detonate and the driver does not recognize either one. guess what happens? the motor goes boom... Honestly yes a street tune with the vehicle moving and air flowing across the engine and filter, you will get a more accurate tune. thus the reason we tune on the dyno then go on a quick test drive to verify everything is fine with driveabilty. As stated before, we are yet "knocks on wood" to have a single issue with this method on any vehicle we tune. But a full on dyno tune can be just as accurate if the tuner knows what he is doing. I have seen some tuners push the limits so hard in the name of 5-10 hp that devistation results. We do not push that bar at all. All of our tunes are extremely safe to be driven in any conditions without the worry of bad results. Yes we like to provide a quality product and quality tune, but we do not want to risk anything. There have been multiple cases where we get guys in that have a mail order tune and in some cases they were ''street'' tunes. We make a few dyno pulls, sean works his magic, and ends up with 10+ peak hp and lots under the curve.

There is a huge misconception about afr. Most dyno tuners aim for 12.8 n/a and 11.8 boosted. Most mail order tuners do their testing at 12.2 and 11.2 so that there is room for error as not every car is the same. Engine spec's being as little as .001 off on anything can be the difference in lasting or it blowing and can vary how the combustion takes advantage of that air and fuel coming in. I have personally built a huge amount of engines 100+. Everything from 1500+ hp race motors, to 200 hp bone stock fox motors and everything in between. Building engines, setting clearances, that is my true passion! How the shortblock is put together, can affect the end hp by as much as 100 rwhp! Afr is about 15% of the power an engine makes, timing is where you really see a difference in power. 1 degree of timing can be as much as 20-30 hp on some engines, where as 12.8 afr will be almost identical hp as 12.2 or 13.4. I have seen cars make more hp just by letting the engine cool for 10 more minutes before making a pull then i have by seeing afr change by a couple hundreths. So long as your afr is within reason of 12.8 ish na, you are fine. (ie: 13.2 and richer) Now naturally if you are running 13.9 and higher at wot, damage can occur, and the same can be said if you are too rich, washing the rings and bearing out will happen if you are too rich and the fuel begins to puddle and is not atomizing properly.


Sorry for the long post, but this is just a pin head of what goes on with tuning and the results of different settings.

Toby
10-16-2012, 09:28 PM
The mechanical part I get, I was more thinking about the tuning aspect of it.

Real quick, the phase limiters physically and mechanically limit the amount of advance or retard is allowed. After installing them, you must also go in the tune and tell the computer it is only allow X amount of advance or retard with cam timing so that it does not try and advance more and end up burning up the solenoids. That is how these guys are getting the ""cam" tunes, they are telling the computer to advance the cam timing at certain points resulting in the loping sound. There is no ill effect to doing this. The fuel smell you are detecting, is because with large cams at low rpms, there is not a complete combustion as it relies on a type of scavenging effect to get the air in and out of the cylinders. Results are some un burnt fuel atoms getting spit out the exhaust. It is much more involved but hopefully this sheds some light on the situation.. :favorites37:

BLK2012GT
10-16-2012, 09:43 PM
Real quick, the phase limiters physically and mechanically limit the amount of advance or retard is allowed. After installing them, you must also go in the tune and tell the computer it is only allow X amount of advance or retard with cam timing so that it does not try and advance more and end up burning up the solenoids. That is how these guys are getting the ""cam" tunes, they are telling the computer to advance the cam timing at certain points resulting in the loping sound. There is no ill effect to doing this. The fuel smell you are detecting, is because with large cams at low rpms, there is not a complete combustion as it relies on a type of scavenging effect to get the air in and out of the cylinders. Results are some un burnt fuel atoms getting spit out the exhaust. It is much more involved but hopefully this sheds some light on the situation.. :favorites37:

So are you ready for my car tomorrow?

Toby
10-16-2012, 11:33 PM
So are you ready for my car tomorrow?

Yesser bring it on! :High 5:

Phuck Phace
10-17-2012, 12:20 AM
Yesser bring it on! :High 5:

Finish up that badass white 5-0 first, Jeff doesn't even drive his car.

Grandpa
10-17-2012, 12:42 AM
Finish up that badass white 5-0 first, Jeff doesn't even drive his car.

I want a ride in that thing with the new blower! :favorites37:

Phuck Phace
10-17-2012, 01:11 AM
I want a ride in that thing with the new blower! :favorites37:

Hopefully it will be done in time for the cruise Saturday.

Grandpa
10-17-2012, 01:16 AM
Hopefully it will be done in time for the cruise Saturday.

Jeff said they are finishing up your car tomorrow so that they can start on his.

Phuck Phace
10-17-2012, 01:18 AM
Jeff said they are finishing up your car tomorrow so that they can start on his.

Nice!
Toby, fill me in tomorrow on le progress.

TrueStreetTim
10-17-2012, 10:21 AM
Jeff said they are finishing up your car tomorrow so that they can start on his.

Mechanically, yes! Tuning, no.

Toby
10-17-2012, 11:18 AM
Nice!
Toby, fill me in tomorrow on le progress.

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd21/mustangguy71/IMAG0650.jpg

:chewie:

Phuck Phace
10-17-2012, 11:20 AM
Awwwwwwweeeeeeee yeah!!

Grandpa
10-17-2012, 11:45 AM
That thing is going to scoot!

BLK2012GT
10-17-2012, 11:54 AM
That thing is going to scoot!

Once it gets traction it will.

Grandpa
10-17-2012, 12:04 PM
Once it gets traction it will.

LOL, you talk as if 550rw is hard to hook up. It's not. Been there, done that. "Fast" street cars making 1000-2000rw are managing to make it hook on the street with current tech, 550rw is easy. Especially with how heavy cars are now. 550rw in a fox, yeah its abit of a handful to drive, but not these tanks. lol.

Toby
10-17-2012, 12:53 PM
LOL, you talk as if 550rw is hard to hook up. It's not. Been there, done that. "Fast" street cars making 1000-2000rw are managing to make it hook on the street with current tech, 550rw is easy. Especially with how heavy cars are now. 550rw in a fox, yeah its abit of a handful to drive, but not these tanks. lol.

550???

:smiley-face-popcorn

11bangbang
10-17-2012, 02:04 PM
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd21/mustangguy71/IMAG0650.jpg

:chewie:

OHHH shit

Grandpa
10-17-2012, 02:49 PM
550???

:smiley-face-popcorn

Don't get cocky now..lol

BLK2012GT
10-17-2012, 03:26 PM
Don't get cocky now..lol

Mine as it is makes more the 550 at the wheels.

TrueStreetTim
10-17-2012, 03:33 PM
550???

:smiley-face-popcorn

:signs75:

Toby
10-17-2012, 04:36 PM
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd21/mustangguy71/IMAG0653.jpg


:win:

Toby
10-17-2012, 04:40 PM
Don't get cocky now..lol

:challenge:

It is being built by the best...

Phuck Phace
10-17-2012, 04:43 PM
Nice, this thread turned into a build thread. I like it.

BLK2012GT
10-17-2012, 04:44 PM
:challenge:

It is being built by the best...

Yeah Steve, what he said.:High 5:

Grandpa
10-17-2012, 04:51 PM
Yeah Steve, what he said.:High 5:

You seem to forget who has talked almost every person on this board into giving TrueStreet a shot including yourself as a former High Priced Parts supporter. I've sent them more business than anyone. :favorites37:

BLK2012GT
10-17-2012, 04:52 PM
What the hell? What happen to my post?

BLK2012GT
10-17-2012, 04:54 PM
You seem to forget who has talked almost every person on this board into giving TrueStreet a shot including yourself as a former High Priced Parts supporter. I've sent them more business than anyone. :favorites37:

Don't know what you're talking about?:smiley-face-popcorn

Phuck Phace
10-17-2012, 04:58 PM
You seem to forget who has talked almost every person on this board into giving TrueStreet a shot including yourself as a former High Priced Parts supporter. I've sent them more business than anyone. :favorites37:

I used them because a damn good friend of mine said that was the shop and tuner to use.

TrueStreetTim
10-17-2012, 05:28 PM
Nice, this thread turned into a build thread. I like it.

:ehcapt:

STROKD
10-17-2012, 07:44 PM
AED custom tunes with street datalogging is $200 bucks. Pretty reasonable. Better price than I was expecting.

AED from Sacramento area is prob the best for a can tune. True street for local dyno for sure

STROKD
10-17-2012, 07:56 PM
Don't get cocky now..lol

my 5.slow makes 550 at about 4800 rpm...:smiley-face-popcorn

StormTrooper
10-17-2012, 08:09 PM
I want a ride when done, no homo!

11bangbang
10-17-2012, 08:16 PM
I want a ride when done, no homo!

Ditto except the no homo part

Phuck Phace
10-17-2012, 08:22 PM
Lol

Grandpa
10-17-2012, 09:02 PM
my 5.slow makes 550 at about 4800 rpm...:smiley-face-popcorn

Then it destroys the trans at 4900. :favorites37:

5PointSlow
10-18-2012, 07:48 PM
AED from Sacramento area is prob the best for a can tune. True street for local dyno for sure

Its an actual custom tune. it is far from a canned tune.