DFW tuners

[rlhay2]

It occurred to me at the GT500 lunch yesterday that there are lots disgruntled customers from the DFW Ford enthusiast community. As most know, I am currently a True Street customer but I am rather forthright and vocal about what I want and what I think is reasonable to expect.

As someone else mentioned, there is no independent shop that has the resources that Ford has available. That said, whether mail order or custom tuned, a dedicated tuner whom is truly interested in delivering a well tuned car, is capable of doing so.

But it takes time!
Typically, more than one day.

And if the car is extensively modded, it may take several days. Furthermore, if you are using forced induction or NOS, the only "true" way to tune the car is on the road in real world conditions. Dynos are useful, but they are not indicative of "real world conditions". This means trusting your tuner to drive your car or the owner making time to drive the car while the tuner datalogs and observes.

And for this to happen, it is not going to be discounted or a group purchase price or "hookup". If after all this, you still have a car that does not run correctly, find another tuner. And if you have burned bridges with all the tuning options in DFW, start turning it yourself.

If you have chosen mail order and the tuner has not requested datalogs of the car being started and driven in a certain manner, you have been short changed.

It's the performance triangle principle:

High Performance
Reliable
Affordable

You only get two!

I have a reliable, 1000+hp weekend car, it was not cheap. But I expected this before I began this journey. If at any point I feel that I am no longer getting the service I expect from a shop, I'll take my business elsewhere. There isn't a Ford shop in DFW that doesn't appreciate a good customer!

[downtime!]

I disagree with your last sentence. I was a good customer to a very well known shop in the area and when it became clear that they could not tune my car in the manner they said they could, I was "put on hold", ignored, and generally made to go somewhere else, all without them actually saying anything like that, so it would appear to be my decision to leave. I really don't think I asked too much either. Simply put, I wanted a supercharged car that would make in the mid 600's and drive like a stocker. I ended up with a car that made the hp, and ran awesome at the track, but was an absolute disaster on the street. Erratic idle, dying at red lights, cruise rpm at steady state driving would fluctuate up and down all over the place. The shop never admitted blame, and basically quit returning my calls.

After several months and multiple trips to the shop, to "get it right this time", I ended up back at the old standby shop, where I should have gone in the first place. He took good care of me, had the car for a couple of weeks, replaced a lot of parts that I suspected shouldn't have been used in the first place, and returned to me an awesome running and driving car.

It doesn't matter how much you spend on things, and it doesn't matter what the shops reputation is, if they realize they can't deliver what they promised, they will find a way to edge you out the door. Best to find a shop that you like, and trust, and develop a relationship with them. Don't go simply by reputation.

[62nalide]

Many have dropped the same shop you have and are waaaaaay happier over @ PMP

[rlhay2]

After several months and multiple trips to the shop, to "get it right this time", I ended up back at the old standby shop, where I should have gone in the first place. He took good care of me, had the car for a couple of weeks, replaced a lot of parts that I suspected shouldn't have been used in the first place, and returned to me an awesome running and driving car.

By your own admission, you had a good relationship with Shop A (that did good work). Why did you try shop B (which did not do a good job on your car)?

Many have dropped the same shop you have and are waaaaaay happier over @ PMP

And if the level of customer service I receive changes, I may do the same. This is not a cheerleading thread. If I did not mention the shop I use, someone else would have.

Customers need to know that good work takes time and costs money. The Wal-Mart business model does not work well with performance cars. Competition makes all the shops better! Each one should welcome a quality competitor.

[62nalide]

I have buddies in the ford and GM world that started where you went. They were happy at 1st and later they didn't like the "customer" service. I won't mention names, there's always 2 sides to a story but when more and more people talk about the same experience its hard not to pick side. We have a buddy's car at PMP now that just picked up 22rwhp over the old tune so things are looking good!

[Dominic Toretto]

Sounds like the old adage, "you get what you pay for" applies. Not shocking.

-Alex

[downtime!]

Because shop B is "the" shop that everyone talks so highly about. Naturally, as a Mustang enthusiast, you want the best when it comes to spending your money. I went in, they did their sales pitch, even had a "demo" car I could check out to see the "quality" of their work. When we took the car back to stock, the sheer amount of crappy work and cut corners was staggering. They could offer the next installation for free and I'd say go fuck yourself.

By your own admission, you had a good relationship with Shop A (that did good work). Why did you try shop B (which did not do a good job on your car)?



And if the level of customer service I receive changes, I may do the same. This is not a cheerleading thread. If I did not mention the shop I use, someone else would have.

Customers need to know that good work takes time and costs money. The Wal-Mart business model does not work well with performance cars. Competition makes all the shops better! Each one should welcome a quality competitor.

[62nalide]

Not trying to stir the pot here but damn PMP did a hell of a job from what a well known and talked about shop did. Lol picked up 29rwhp and 80rwtq yes no BS either. I'll try to post the graph. Waiting 2 Months for a tune my ass lol

[rlhay2]

Not trying to stir the pot here but damn PMP did a hell of a job from what a well known and talked about shop did.

Why is everyone on this site so damn vague?
Are you guys fearful of being called out?
If saying what is on your mind and is supported by unbiased empirical evidence is frowned upon, then I am likely to get banned.

Lol picked up 29rwhp and 80rwtq yes no BS either. I'll try to post the graph. l

Sounds good!
But post both dynos, including ambient weather temps from both days.
My car dynos ~100hp different in the summer than it does in the winter.

[62nalide]

Ok so this is a 2011 with LTs, off road X-pipe CAI and a tune from shop A. Car was at shop A 2 months yes 2 moths for their tune which gave us the 1st results you see. We let the car cool for about an hour before we got these sad baselines smh...... After a few hours at PMP the car felt like a whole new car!



http://i60.tinypic.com/1z4c2ms.jpg

[Courtesy Flush]

Ok so this is a 2011 with LTs, off road X-pipe CAI and a tune from shop A. Car was at shop A 2 months yes 2 moths for their tune which gave us the 1st results you see. We let the car cool for about an hour before we got these sad baselines smh...... After a few hours at PMP the car felt like a whole new car!



http://i60.tinypic.com/1z4c2ms.jpg

What dyno? Those #'s seems awfully low for a bolt on 5.0.

[62nalide]

What dyno? Those #'s seems awfully low for a bolt on 5.0.

Whatever PMP uses I wanna say a dynojet. But track numbers is what we are into not what a sheet of paper says we have.

Edit: And has 3.73 gear swap also

[Courtesy Flush]

Whatever PMP uses I wanna say a dynojet. But track numbers is what we are into not what a sheet of paper says we have.

Edit: And has 3.73 gear swap also

You started commenting in this thread about how different dyno #'s were from shop A to B. Now they don't matter?
What did the car run at the track on tune A vs tune B.

If you're going to compare one run to another bring all the facts.
Conditions, Temps, Brand of Dyno....this stuff makes a difference in #'s.

[62nalide]

You started commenting in this thread about how different dyno #'s were from shop A to B. Now they don't matter?
What did the car run at the track on tune A vs tune B.

If you're going to compare one run to another bring all the facts.
Conditions, Temps, Brand of Dyno....this stuff makes a difference in #'s.

Where on here am I stating that it matters? I started talking about experiences with big name shops. Shop A had the car running 8.40s back to back when the car ran 8.50s stock. With the mods it had it should be running 7.90s at least. Car fell on it's face when going into gear. Now the graph posted is showing the gains they picked up. Again same day baseline is on top same day finished tune on bottom. It matters to me what was picked up. I can careless what the final number is. The dyno did it's job measuring the gains.

[Courtesy Flush]

Where on here am I stating that it matters? I started talking about experiences with big name shops. Shop A had the car running 8.40s back to back when the car ran 8.50s stock. With the mods it had it should be running 7.90s at least. Car fell on it's face when going into gear. Now the graph posted is showing the gains they picked up. Again same day baseline is on top same day finished tune on bottom. It matters to me what was picked up. I can careless what the final number is. The dyno did it's job measuring the gains.

Up until this post you haven't given any info other than final dyno #'s.....
it obviously means something to you, if not then why post it.
When the car was running/shifting so badly did the car go back to the initial tuner to look it over and make it right?
I'm simply asking for information.

[62nalide]

Up until this post you haven't given any info other than final dyno #'s.....
it obviously means something to you, if not then why post it.
When the car was running/shifting so badly did the car go back to the initial tuner to look it over and make it right?
I'm simply asking for information.

Read post #5, then from there you will see and read what shop A did and final #s from PMP. It means that I do care what was fixed when Shop A had the car 2 months to install headers and injectors and tune. Shop A said they need about another month just to tune it. The initial tuner couldn't give us a straight answer for not being done right the 1st place.

[rlhay2]

Who was Shop A?

[blownaltered]

This shop A and B shit is getting old. There are to many people posting in here to have any idea what the fuck any of you are talking about.

[62nalide]

If the mods will let me post it I will. Been warned before since they sponsor on here

[Courtesy Flush]

I'm assuming Shop A is Truestreet or HPP.

[62nalide]

I'm assuming Shop A is Truestreet or HPP.

Awesome guess lol

[DirtyD]

Shop A is Gearheads, Shop B is HPP in Bryan's case.

[Courtesy Flush]

Read post #5, then from there you will see and read what shop A did and final #s from PMP. It means that I do care what was fixed when Shop A had the car 2 months to install headers and injectors and tune. Shop A said they need about another month just to tune it. The initial tuner couldn't give us a straight answer for not being done right the 1st place.

I've read the thread. You seem to leave parts of the story out.

2011 with LTs, off road X-pipe CAI and a tune from shop A. Car was at shop A 2 months yes 2 moths for their tune

Shop A had the car 2 months to install headers and injectors and tune.

[blownaltered]

Shop A is Gearheads, Shop B is HPP in Bryan's case.

People still take their cars to Gearheads on purpose?

[62nalide]

I've read the thread. You seem to leave parts of the story out.
What is it you would like to know? The car was at the shop 2 months to get headers and injectors done and to retune the car. They didn't tune it right, they said another month before they can tune it right

[rlhay2]

We all make mistakes.
I took my car to Lone Star Performance once...a mistake I will never make again. I don't need to sully their poor reputation. I have voted with my wallet. 1000hp cars are not cheap. And not a penny was spent at LSP after that 1st visit.

[blownaltered]

We all make mistakes.
I took my car to Lone Star Performance once...a mistake I will never make again. I don't need to sully their poor reputation. I have voted with my wallet. 1000hp cars are not cheap. And not a penny was spent at LSP after that 1st visit.

I know at one point lonestar was a good shop. They did all my work a decade ago. That is when Mike Wilson was tuning there. Now that was ten years ago. I have no idea who works there anymore or who even tunes there anymore. I can tell you all shops have had there ups and downs.

There isn't a shop that hasn't had bad things happen. I've been around this scene so long I got some stories, I just don't share them because usually there is no reason to go down that road.

The true fact is a shop can put out 50 cars with no issues and then one bad one will stick forever. Most customers the shops have don't post on these forums.

I know guys that leave one shop because they have gone through motors and it doesn't run right. Then they will go to different shop and at the same time that shop has a car going to the shop they left for the same reason. I actually find it entertaining most days.

[DirtyD]

Speaking of Mike Wilson.....is that lying thieving tooner still tooning for True Street?

[blownaltered]

Speaking of Mike Wilson.....is that lying thieving tooner still tooning for True Street?

I've known Mike for over a decade and he has always been a stand up guy, not sure where this comment is coming from.

[DirtyD]

I've known Mike for over a decade and he has always been a stand up guy, not sure where this comment is coming from.
This just happened recently.

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?1033856-the-truth-about-your-hypermotive-tunes

More specifically Shaun's post regarding this situation:

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?1033856-the-truth-about-your-hypermotive-tunes&p=14401092&viewfull=1#post14401092

2nd, I've been in DFW on Business since Early Tuesday, returned Late Thursday and have been working at the shop catching up with in-house tunes/customers. I've had virtually no time to deal with this situation that has popped up on the internet Drama Boards, aside from responding to a few emails here and there when I can find the time.

3rd, I recorded the phone calls for 1 reason only. To cover my ass in the event this went public. Public opinion in this matters and the best defense I could think of was to have the actual phone calls recorded. The Last thing I wanted to get into was a 'He said, She said' online argument.

4th, There is more than 1 AED based tune file out there from Mike Wilson. Here is a list of files I've sent to Mike since March, when we know he started tuning for Hypermotive. Of course I was told all of these were for in-person tunes, I can only assume based of other evidence (read below) at least some of these were used for HPM customers.
2012, 2013 Boss All-Motor files sent to Mike on 3/21
2013 Paxton Auto file: 3/21
2011, 2012, 2013, 2014 A6 All-Motor files: 4/2
2011, 2012, 2013, 2014 M6 All-Motor files: 4/2
2013 TVS and Whipple A6 files: 5/23
SCJ All Motor Value file: 6/4 *Note* this corresponds to this particular customer/thread: http://www.svtperformance.com/forums...-AED-tuned-%29
Prior to March I sent Mike Hellion files, Paxton M6 files, Procharger files, Manguson file, and Ecoboost files.

I have all the above Emails saved to back this up.

5th, As some have stated I mark my tune files, all of them. One way is to chage the Strategy code in the Binary. I have a list of these that correspond to specific applications. For instance, some of my all motor M6 files will show an A6 strategy code.
There are other things in my files that are very distinct, and here are 2 that stand out to the customer and were evidence my work was used in more than 1 HPM tune:
1. Fuel economy increases of 2-4MPG. These changes are very specific via TiVCT and due to the (mild) complexity of the Coyote TiVCT system copy/pasting a single table does NOT work. A tuner must know the 4 tables that are used and how they interact, plus have done the R&D to determine the cam timing that yields the best fuel economy. I can not name more than a 1/2 a dozen tuners that can do this accurately on thier own, all of which I personally trained, Mike was not one of them.
Here is a link to show when I implemented this into AED's all-motor tunes: http://www.svtperformance.com/forums...-tune-can-help
2. Refined, 'Linear' Throttle response. This is a very tricky one actually. Most tuners use Driver demand to modify throttle response, but given the complexity of the HDFX system modifying 1 table for all 13 Ford defined valve events (in the coyote) results in smoothing some areas during certain driving conditions and accentuating problems in other areas during orther driving conditions (jerky throttle when cold for instance) as Cam timing changes. As such, my files refine the Throttle under EACH valve event, thus refining the throttle response under all driving conditions. This is particularly important for Road Race applications.
Due to the complexity of forcing each valve event and modifying each set of tables it's highly unlikely anyone has done this aside from me. Especially since SCT Live Link can not data log the parameters necessary to properly dial in these tables. I used alternate logging software and spent 9 months figuring out what to modify, then 12 hours on the chassis dyno doing the actual calibration.

When I saw posts about Fuel economy increases and Refined/smooth throttle response from HPM tuned customers, I knew what files were being used, but I did not know who was doing HPM's tuning at the time. That triggered an exhaustive investigation that included 1/2 a dozen shops/tuners around the country, all of which have an invested interest as their work is in these tune files as well. I work with some of the best in the industry and we coordinate on not only tuning, but pricing as well so as not to be in competition with each other.
We ordered Hypermotive tunes. Not all tunes that came thru were AED based, some were based on Bama tunes from what we could tell (another clue on who the HPM tuner was). To be clear we have many AED based HPM tunes, and I'm sure there are many more out there I do not know about, it's not just the SCJ file as claimed. (I let Mike slide on that in the phone convesations.)
It took us 6 weeks to accumulate the necessary evidence to callout Mike on being the HPM tuner, but I still needed HARD evidence, and that came from his confession.

6th I did NOT want all of this posted ot the public message boards. ShaunC and Nosympathy can attest to that as I specifically asked them many times via email to keep it quiet as I stand just as much to lose (if not more) as HPM and Mike does.
Fact is Many HPM tunes have my work in them, we have all the evidence to prove this.
Per the Phone conversation Mike had the tune price raised to $250, I did not ask him to no longer use my work, that was his decision. All I asked for was the price be raised so as not to undercut me with my own work.
Mike stopped using my work as of 8/6 and the posts on the internet confirm this as customers have reported drivability issues, knock sensors values changed so knock can not be logged (like Bama), etc. It is CLEAR those tunes are NOT AED based.
However, once the pricing dropped to $200 it was also clear Mike was not a man of his word. Since I have caught him in multiple lies I can not trust what he says. The price drop to $200 was just another sign of what was coming.
With the resent rash of unsatisfied HPM customers going to Me, Lund, and many other tuners it was simply a matter of time before Mike started using my tune files again. If you listen carefully to the phone call Mike told me he deleted all the emails from me. He did NOT say he delete the actual tune files, and even if he did what about the customers that are already tuned with AED files? Do you think he deleted all of those customer's files? I do NOT.

That would mean using AED's work and selling the tunes for $200, once again undercutting me with my own work. This is what I was expecting within a few weeks at most.
My goal for 'leaking' the information to ShaunC was to try and stem the tide of losing business to HPM by slowly and quietly informing those looking for HPM tunes of what was really going on. Yes, I offered a discounted rate to HPM tuned customers *IF* they kept all of this quiet and off the boards.

These are MY mistakes, and for that Mike Wilson I do appologize. Jason, I applogize for this as well. Honest and truely, I did NOT want this dirty laundry going public like this.

[BlackStang08]

HPP is where I go. Manny is the best Mustang tuner around.

[62nalide]

HPP is where I go. Manny is the best Mustang tuner around.

Lol you might wanna look at the graph I posted

[downtime!]

My '12, with CAI, off road X, and BBK long tubes, tuned by Travis, made 435 and 410.

After the HPP fiasco, he was able to smooth the tune out, make the car completely driveable again (it ran so bad, I parked it and bought an '05 GT to drive daily), and still got me over 600 rwhp. With that tune, and 100 shot, the car ran 10.1x's even with my old, no shiftin' ass behind the wheel.

Gearheads has done right by me more times than I can count, going all the way back to my Procharged '03. They take a lot of shit around here, but in the end, results count.

[BlackStang08]

Lol you might wanna look at the graph I posted

That graph doesn't say much. Unless we know air/fuel, temp, timing, fuel type, etc. We also can't see the mods the car had when the dyno graph was made. You could have more mods, torco, and timing in the last run.

[blownaltered]

Nevermind, I had to stop myself. I'm glad your happy with Gearheads.

[62nalide]

That graph doesn't say much. Unless we know air/fuel, temp, timing, fuel type, etc. We also can't see the mods the car had when the dyno graph was made. You could have more mods, torco, and timing in the last run.

The baseline was done with LT, CAI, off road x-pipe, injectors and E85. Car ran like shit and being at the shop for 2 months for that poor ass tune. Swapped tuners and fixed the mistake that was done by "HPP"...

[downtime!]

The baseline was done with LT, CAI, off road x-pipe, injectors and E85. Car ran like shit and being at the shop for 2 months for that poor ass tune. Swapped tuners and fixed the mistake that was done by "HPP"...Both of those numbers were on E85? My 435/410 was on 93 pump gas. Are you sure you're happy with those results? Travis is notorious for tuning conservatively, but looks like he left a lot on the table there.

[62nalide]

Both of those numbers were on E85? My 435/410 was on 93 pump gas. Are you sure you're happy with those results? Travis is notorious for tuning conservatively, but looks like he left a lot on the table there.

Honestly I'm not happy but wanna see what it runs and traps. Yes both were E85. The baseline is a 2month waited tune by HPP. Most likely if my buddy isn't happy it will be up for sale.

[BlackStang08]

Did you have bigger plans for your car? Surpised you went with injectors and E85 with "mild" mods.

Sucks he got a crappy tune. When my car was up there for mods and tune, the morning car was a 5.0 with E85 and HUGE twin screw. When I went to HPP they were scheduling one tune in the morning and one for the afternoon.

When you say 2 month wait, do you mean he had to wait two months for a tune? I don't doubt that. I called up to make an appt and they were booked a month and a half out. So I pretty muched waited almost 2 months. The good thing is that they didn't have my car for two months and I was able to drop it off in the morning and have it back in the evening.

[rlhay2]

I know at one point lonestar was a good shop. They did all my work a decade ago.

When I used them they were remote tuning with John Lund. I dropped off a 640 rwhp car and picked up a built motor 615 rwhp car. Took it to Archie King who delivered me a great running ~690 rwhp car and I was happy...until I wanted more.

I can tell you all shops have had there ups and downs.

I know guys that leave one shop because they have gone through motors and it doesn't run right. Then they will go to different shop and at the same time that shop has a car going to the shop they left for the same reason. I actually find it entertaining most days.

Quoted for truth! Most things are usually cyclical. But I believe in sharing. But not just sharing what I think should have happened but sharing all the relevant details. Even the embarrassing ones that usually begin "I was a naive consumer and..."

[62nalide]

Did you have bigger plans for your car? Surpised you went with injectors and E85 with "mild" mods.

Sucks he got a crappy tune. When my car was up there for mods and tune, the morning car was a 5.0 with E85 and HUGE twin screw. When I went to HPP they were scheduling one tune in the morning and one for the afternoon.

When you say 2 month wait, do you mean he had to wait two months for a tune? I don't doubt that. I called up to make an appt and they were booked a month and a half out. So I pretty muched waited almost 2 months. The good thing is that they didn't have my car for two months and I was able to drop it off in the morning and have it back in the evening.

It all depends how the car runs this weekend to determine what power adder is going to be used. Yes the car was sitting at the shop for 2 months just to get a tune done. The same has badass builds and people say good things but IDK if it's just because we didn't bust out with $30k build.

[Grandpa]

Nevermind, I had to stop myself. I'm glad your happy with Gearheads.

Good call. Not worth the BS.

[BLK2012GT]

I think my car is prime example, just sayin.

[downtime!]

I think my car is prime example, just sayin.I agree with you 100%

[blownaltered]

Good call. Not worth the BS.

You have no idea what I've been hearing about lately. The guy that bought my old car, went back to them against my advise. He is now looking for a new shop, to fix it. I will tell you in person why.

[blownaltered]

I think my car is prime example, just sayin.

Boy that has never happened at the shop you are now going to. Oh that's right it has, so I wouldn't get to cocky yet. Just saying. That's why these threads are so funny to me. Every shop has these threads about them, every shop.

[Grandpa]

Boy that has never happened at the shop you are now going to. Oh that's right it has, so I wouldn't get to cocky yet. Just saying. That's why these threads are so funny to me. Every shop has these threads about them, every shop.

Lmao, aint that the damndest truth! Eight motors, dozen transmissions/clutches, crank ripped off the front of the block, melted pistons, hot wires, fuel leak, parts falling off the car in the parking lot with no one standing around it and much more , car damaged/scratched up, janky roll cage install and that was all to ONE customer. Hahaha

[BLK2012GT]

Boy that has never happened at the shop you are now going to. Oh that's right it has, so I wouldn't get to cocky yet. Just saying. That's why these threads are so funny to me. Every shop has these threads about them, every shop.

Well lets compare the two shop tuning since thats all HPP has done:

TS: I've paid for probably 23hrs of tuning mostly NA to get the car running right and to try to make the most power. It made 525 rwhp and 412 rwtq, 29 degrees of timing, running lean, it never idle right, it surged, every time I came to a stop the engine would die, and pretty much every one saw what happen on the dyno when they try to tune for nitrous.

HPP: Paid for 2hrs of tuning, made 544 rwhp, 442rwtq, 23 degrees of timing, A/F ratio perfect, it idle a whole lot better, it doesn't die when I come to any stops. And manny is making the drivibilty perfect and its not costing me a dime. Thats customer service, hes actually driving it around to get the drivbility perfect where TS never really did that. They would give me the car and they said let them know whats wrong and Sean would make the adjustment.

So you tell me if my car isn't perfect example. Oh yea forgot to mention my car has bad piston slap especially when its cold. And I know every shop has their problem cars and done shitty work. But I'm just talking about my car not others. But so far HPP has always impress me with the tuning and the work they've done on my car. I should had paid them the money they quoted to do my build instead of trying to save money and go with TS. Which in the long run it cost me a whole lot more money.


EDIT: I just looked at all the invoices and I paid for 18hrs of tuning.

[Midnight11]

Manny at hpp. Period end of story

[downtime!]

Manny at hpp. Period end of storyNot even close.

[Midnight11]

Yea tuned my car in less than a hour and made crazy power for what I have

[downtime!]

I know exactly what he did, but he ain't all that. Trust me. Seems to be hit or miss on who gets a good job done, and who doesn't. He installed a grab bag of new and used parts on my car, including injectors designed to be used with a return style system and a used BAP that had been modified to run wide open all the time, and then wondered why he couldn't smooth the tune out. If you take him a car that is completely setup the way it should be, from the start, then he can tune it, for sure. If his shop does a half assed job with used parts, then not so much. My car did run like a raped ape at the track though, just couldn't drive it to or from the track.

And you're lucky you did the installation yourself. If you would have been there when Frank, Jonathan and I took the KB off the car, you would have been amazed at the hack job they did on the install. I'm surprised it didn't short out the electrical system.

[Midnight11]

This post was about tuning that's why I answered it the way I did

[62nalide]

HPP's crappy tune car ran 8.20s
PMP's tune car ran 7.70s


We didn't have a good experience with Manny and HPP it was horrible. But yeah if others are happy with what they have thats great I guess you need to be in some type of club or be in the illuminati or something to be treated good. Oh well.

[downtime!]

The bottom line is, and always has been, for every person pissed off at one shop there is another who swears by it.

Yet another reason why my hot rods now are all over 40 years old. No one wrenches on these cars but me. If something goes wrong, I know exactly who to blame.

[Midnight11]

Age of car doesn't really have anything. You can still do your own shit on a new car

[saunupe1911]

It took me 2 yrs to finally tune my car... But when I did I took it straight to Manny. Why? Because I watched him tune numerous cars before mine and they all ran excellent. I can't speak for engine builds but Manny is the man when it comes to pure tuning. Also the car is tuned exactly how I want it! To my exact specifications.

[kdanner]

Age of car doesn't really have anything. You can still do your own shit on a new car

This.

[downtime!]

Age of car doesn't really have anything. You can still do your own shit on a new carI'll take that bet. We both start from scratch, you do your GT in its current form, I'll do my Scamp in its current form, and we race when we're done. You have 1 hour to do your best. Or worst. As the case may be.

[downtime!]

This.You get a pass since you've obviously taken the time to learn the in's and out's of a modern cars spark and fuel tables.

[kdanner]

I'll take that bet. We both start from scratch, you do your GT in its current form, I'll do my Scamp in its current form, and we race when we're done. You have 1 hour to do your best. Or worst. As the case may be.

I'd have to say why not start with both of them in 100% stock form? Then how long does it take you to do the work just to catch up with the newer car which is still in its stock form?

You get a pass since you've obviously taken the time to learn the in's and out's of a modern cars spark and fuel tables.

It's just air, fuel, and spark. Old or new. I've still got boxes of Holley jets and gaskets around here somewhere. I think the thing is the new stuff is viewed as some kind of black magic by many, and that just isn't the case. I see it as easier, I can sure make a calibration change and reflash quicker than I ever could tear the bowls off the carb and put them back, then get a timing light out and change the base timing, let alone changing the weights/springs for the mechanical advance. Plus I'm more likely to actually make the right change due to having data instead of guessing what the older car wants.

Now, would I rather put headers on your A body than put them on an S197? Hell yes. But by the same token I'd rather put them on an S197 than a 68-70 428CJ car. Would I rather put an oil pump on a big block Mopar than about anything else in the world, yes. We can play that kind of game all day.

[downtime!]

We could start both stock, no issues. I've been doing these things long enough to have it 98% correct as soon as I finish bolting the carb on. Won't need a jet change, just a little smoothing out.

I agree on the black magic part though. I tuned two of my old 3V cars, once with Sniper software and the last one with the SCT Racer pack or whatever it used to be called. It's still a matter or learning what the car likes, what this change affects over there, and how it all works together. The difference is, you will not do a great job your first time out. There is a reasonably steep learning curve. While in the other pit, there is a very reasonable chance that I can bolt that carb on right out of the box and the car will run pretty good. Two or three quick turns of a screwdriver, a twist of the distributor, and I'm good to go.

I'd have to say why not start with both of them in 100% stock form? Then how long does it take you to do the work just to catch up with the newer car which is still in its stock form?



It's just air, fuel, and spark. Old or new. I've still got boxes of Holley jets and gaskets around here somewhere. I think the thing is the new stuff is viewed as some kind of black magic by many, and that just isn't the case. I see it as easier, I can sure make a calibration change and reflash quicker than I ever could tear the bowls off the carb and put them back, then get a timing light out and change the base timing, let alone changing the weights/springs for the mechanical advance. Plus I'm more likely to actually make the right change due to having data instead of guessing what the older car wants.

Now, would I rather put headers on your A body than put them on an S197? Hell yes. But by the same token I'd rather put them on an S197 than a 68-70 428CJ car. Would I rather put an oil pump on a big block Mopar than about anything else in the world, yes. We can play that kind of game all day.

[DirtyD]

So Noah is doing tuning now? Or is he working with someone else?

[Grandpa]

LOL, I'm so glad I don't have to deal with these Ford problems anymore...

[DirtyD]

LOL, I'm so glad I don't have to deal with these Ford problems anymore...
Found Online Raging Drama?

[blownaltered]

LOL, I'm so glad I don't have to deal with these Ford problems anymore...

lmao, the GM community bitches about tuners as much as the ford guys do.

[DirtyD]

lmao, the GM community bitches about tuners as much as the ford guys do.
And now they just bitch about recalls.

:)

[Grandpa]

lmao, the GM community bitches about tuners as much as the ford guys do.
They bitch about who is faster. Not about which tuner blows more shit up than Al Qaueda..

And now they just bitch about recalls.

:)

I have yet to see a recall on the V. :favorites37:



Honestly, all this arguing and bitching is pointless. Once you get in this hobby and start modding your car, it should come as no surprise when shit breaks. It's part of the risk you take modding a car from factory specs. It's the same with people who bitch and complain about getting tickets when building a high horsepower car. Getting tickets comes with the territory.

Ford, Chevy, foreign or domestic, it all really doesn't matter. When you build a car to be used beyond what it was designed for, shit is going to happen. So choose whatever car you like, build it to suit your tastes and how you are going to use it, and just enjoy it. Bickering over semantics is a waste of energy and time.

[DirtyD]

They bitch about who is faster. Not about which tuner blows more shit up than Al Qaueda..



I have yet to see a recall on the V. :favorites37:



Honestly, all this arguing and bitching is pointless. Once you get in this hobby and start modding your car, it should come as no surprise when shit breaks. It's part of the risk you take modding a car from factory specs. It's the same with people who bitch and complain about getting tickets when building a high horsepower car. Getting tickets comes with the territory.

Ford, Chevy, foreign or domestic, it all really doesn't matter. When you build a car to be used beyond what it was designed for, shit is going to happen. So choose whatever car you like, build it to suit your tastes and how you are going to use it, and just enjoy it. Bickering over semantics is a waste of energy and time.
Wise ol' Grandpa and his infinite wisdom

[Midnight11]

But Steve was all about the shop that blew the most cars up...

[Stangmaster281]

Wise ol' Grandpa and his infinite wisdom

And like all the other ol grandpa's of infinite wisdom, everyone let's him babble on acting like they're paying attention until he forgets what he was saying and falls asleep.

[blownaltered]

But Steve was all about the shop that blew the most cars up...

Your young so I'm trying to let some of this slide but your making it very hard to. You were nut hugging true street for years and they never did anything wrong to your car. Now your nut hugging HPP, which is fine but let's not try to distort or make up facts. To say true street has blown up more cars than any other shop in town is laughable. I won't bring up names or experience but when you don't know what your talking about you might want to keep your mouth shut. So you had a couple friends that have had bad experiences there, who gives a shit. I could go on for hours about the shit I know about some of the shops in town and what they have done to people cars. Every shop has had or had theses problems.

I can name shops that don't even tune their own cars, they use internet tuners to tune them. I can tell you that one of the people in this thread doesn't realize his car was tuned by somebody he is bashing because the shop couldn't tune his car, then the shop couldn't afford to pay the tuner once he was done. I don't say the things I know because well it's not my place and frankly I don't care. People are going to take their cars where they want and if you can't accept that or think you need to add your .02 in about a shop your in the wrong business.

If I saw the site owner running his mouth about shops I would yank my fucking add in a heart beat, but that's just me.

[Grandpa]

But Steve was all about the shop that blew the most cars up...

Go back and search my posts and reread what I said. I've always said, I have no issue with anyone stating their issues with ANY shop that they have had first hand. My problem is with all the people who were just running their mouths from second/third hand information that had nothing to do with them, or their cars. My issue was with the people who were personally slandering Clint when they don't know the guy, or ever dealt with him, but rather getting their information from someone else who wasn't telling the complete truth about their car and what happened because they were embarrassed or didn't completely understand the ramifications of beating on a car before it was ready.

Has TS made mistakes? Absolutely. ALL shops do, because they are run by humans who make mistakes. If you stay at HPP long enough, the same things will happen there too. Why? Because it's just part of the hobby. Shit breaks and people screw up.

You're young, I've already gone down that path you are now learning the hobby, the shop shuffle, blah blah blah. In time you will see, it's just how the hobby goes if you stay in it long enough. Eventually, you'll also figure out something about accountibilty, that at the end of the day you really only have yourself to blame for shit going wrong with your car because you made the decision to modify it.

The one rule that has ALWAYS stood true about this hobby - Cheap, fast, reliable - choose two.

Your young so I'm trying to let some of this slide but your making it very hard to. You were nut hugging true street for years and they never did anything wrong to your car. Now your nut hugging HPP, which is fine but let's not try to distort or make up facts. To say true street has blown up more cars than any other shop in town is laughable. I won't bring up names or experience but when you don't know what your talking about you might want to keep your mouth shut. So you had a couple friends that have had bad experiences there, who gives a shit. I could go on for hours about the shit I know about some of the shops in town and what they have done to people cars. Every shop has had or had theses problems.

I can name shops that don't even tune their own cars, they use internet tuners to tune them. I can tell you that one of the people in this thread doesn't realize his car was tuned by somebody he is bashing because the shop couldn't tune his car, then the shop couldn't afford to pay the tuner once he was done. I don't say the things I know because well it's not my place and frankly I don't care. People are going to take their cars where they want and if you can't accept that or think you need to add your .02 in about a shop your in the wrong business.



Yep. Agreed.

The performance shops industry is a SHITTY business to get into in the first place. I knew Clint WAY before he ever got into it when he was still working in the mortgage business. I told him then, don't do it. Not because I didn't think he couldn't make it work, but rather because its a shitty business model full of stress.

It's a business based on building powerful cars for people you know for 100% certain are going to go out and beat the snot out of it. Most customers don't have a fucking clue about their cars which is why they are willing to take the car to a shop, write a check to have some guys they don't know build their car for them. When shit goes wrong -its the shops fault, never the guy behind the wheel beating the fuck out of a car who is suppose to be giving the car "break-in" miles rather than standing the car on the rev-limiter all night long.

Stick around the scene long enough and you will see the main guys (owners) of the shops tend to stay the same, but the shop mechanics are constantly changing and they eventually make it to every shop around town. A lot of these shop mechanics aren't professionally educated, certified type mechanics, but rather guys just like us who have been around awhile turning wrenches, the difference is they are willing to do the work for pay.



At the end of all of this, the only thing that has come from it all is causing bad blood between people over trivial shit and now DFW50s has a less than stellar reputation. All the shops in question are still in business, still thriving and life will go on. So all of this BS has been and will be for nothing.

[Grandpa]

And like all the other ol grandpa's of infinite wisdom, everyone let's him babble on acting like they're paying attention until he forgets what he was saying and falls asleep.

And like most kids, in time you will through experience learn the hard way rather than listening to those who have already done it before you. In time, you will see that I'm right. ;)

[DirtyD]

I have yet to see a recall on the V. :favorites37:
Give it time. The way GM has been lately, they will discover about 5 recalls in the next few years for your car, since that seems to be their trend. lol

[Grandpa]

Give it time. The way GM has been lately, they will discover about 5 recalls in the next few years for your car, since that seems to be their trend. lol

I don't doubt it in the slightest. Oh well, if it blows up...it blows up. Haha.

[blownaltered]

I don't doubt it in the slightest. Oh well, if it blows up...it blows up. Haha.

Lol, I go onto Chevy's website and check for recalls about once a year. I never have recalls on my trucks but my mom has had 3 on her Traverse in the last two years.

[BLK2012GT]

Or maybe the shop just can't tune big builds coyote. 1 out of 4 isn't a good stat.

[Midnight11]

I wouldnt talk when you don't know shit about peoples build Donnie, pretty sure I know more than you about that stuff. I promoted them until they started fucking my friends over.

You wanna race that og 5.0 of yours? Or just talk a lot

[BLK2012GT]

Dayum someone got CALLED OUT!!!!!

[Grandpa]

I wouldnt talk when you don't know shit about peoples build Donnie, pretty sure I know more than you about that stuff. I promoted them until they started fucking my friends over.

You wanna race that og 5.0 of yours? Or just talk a lot

Takes a lot of balls to call out a car you make 175rw more than. But maybe I shouldn't be surprised when you're running high 7's with a near 700rw car. LMAO!

[IHateThisSite]

So much butt hurt and nut swinging at the same time ... Fuck every shop that isn't Frankford springs garage special

[Midnight11]

But you can't drive either Steve. Who misses 4th?

Beat a vortech charged 21st tuned c7 last night. So keep talking

[BLK2012GT]

So much butt hurt and nut swinging at the same time ... Fuck every shop that isn't Frankford springs garage special

Coming from a bone stock car owner. Thanks for your useless input.

[yefferys50]

Here's what I know.

A lot of DFW5.0 guys rode True Street balls like it was prom night. Some of the guys stopped riding said balls once the free/cheap shit stopped coming.

True Street, HPP, Gearheads, 21st...hell all shops have blown cars up. It's part of the business. Hell Dallas Performance, one of the best shops our area has, had some shitty build drama just recently. It happens to everyone.

Certain people on this board are great at burning bridges and keep doing it. Certain people won't have many bridges left. You never know which "face" you're talking with with these people.

[Grandpa]

But you can't drive either Steve. Who misses 4th?

Beat a vortech charged 21st tuned c7 last night. So keep talking

Keep holding on to that because it's all you got. I missed shifts with a stock shifter and to you that adds up I can't drive? LOL, funny, after I got my shifter I didn't have anymore problems.

You beat a blown C7..oh that's....cute. I bet it was from a high roll to where you could make the car hook since you were running high 7's with 700rw. Can't drive? Glass houses, my friend. LMAO.

[Grandpa]

Here's what I know.

A lot of DFW5.0 guys rode True Street balls like it was prom night. Some of the guys stopped riding said balls once the free/cheap shit stopped coming.

True Street, HPP, Gearheads, 21st...hell all shops have blown cars up. It's part of the business. Hell Dallas Performance, one of the best shops our area has, had some shitty build drama just recently. It happens to everyone.

Certain people on this board are great at burning bridges and keep doing it. Certain people won't have many bridges left. You never know which "face" you're talking with with these people.

Well said, sir!!

[Bearded Banger]

04 Sleeper/end this thread

[blownaltered]

I wouldnt talk when you don't know shit about peoples build Donnie, pretty sure I know more than you about that stuff. I promoted them until they started fucking my friends over.

You wanna race that og 5.0 of yours? Or just talk a lot

Lmao your such a little baby. I could say the exact same thing about the she shop your swinging from now. That's how stupid you are, you think they are any better.

[IHateThisSite]

Coming from a bone stock car owner. Thanks for your useless input.

Hey Biff ... Not that long ago all your input was swinging from TS via the longest mouth hug in history ... Steering all your friends to have them do work ... So eat a fucking case of dicks ... I will do my own work on my own car my own way .... Not everyone has mommy and daddy to pay for a racecar ...

[blownaltered]

Hey Biff ... Not that long ago all your input was swinging from TS via the longest mouth hug in history ... Steering all your friends to have them do work ... So eat a fucking case of dicks ... I will do my own work on my own car my own way .... Not everyone has mommy and daddy to pay for a racecar ...

Damn shit just got real

[Taxman]

So Noah is doing tuning now? Or is he working with someone else?

No he's got Daniel from Triangle Speed Shop in Houston remote tuning.

[blownaltered]

What I find entertaining is that I haven't bashed a shop in this thread or told anybody how great true street is and I'm getting attacked. I've said all shops in dfw have done it multiple times. This thread makes me smile.

[Fonzy7189]

http://cdn.meme.li/instances/52462092.jpg

[Grandpa]

What I find entertaining is that I haven't bashed a shop in this thread or told anybody how great true street is and I'm getting attacked. I've said all shops in dfw have done it multiple times. This thread makes me smile.

That's what happens when the argument is weak. lol. 700rw car vs 500rw car. LMAO...gimme a break.

[Midnight11]

I don't think not getting free stuff anymore is why people stopped like ts...

[Grandpa]

I don't think not getting free stuff anymore is why people stopped like ts...

You don't speak for everyone. They are doing just fine. The new big shop is full of customers. lol.


I swear you guys are like some high school kids still who just broke up with their first girlfriends holding a grudge forever. Who gives a shit. It's done..it's over. Go your separate ways and get the fuck over it! Damn. lol.

[blownaltered]

The fact is that TS isn't hurting because of this. They just moved into a bigger facility and hired a couple more mechanics. So plenty of people like TS. There are a few in here that don't but like I said earlier. For every pissed off customer there are 50 happy. You just never hear from those 50 because they don't post on boards or just don't care to post about it.

[blownaltered]

Damn Steve you beat me to it.

[Grandpa]

Damn Steve you beat me to it.

You are slower...




































As usual. :favorites37:

[BLK2012GT]

Hey Biff ... Not that long ago all your input was swinging from TS via the longest mouth hug in history ... Steering all your friends to have them do work ... So eat a fucking case of dicks ... I will do my own work on my own car my own way .... Not everyone has mommy and daddy to pay for a racecar ...

You mad bro?

[BLK2012GT]

Damn shit just got real

Brandon is fucking harmless.

[Grandpa]

Brandon is fucking harmless.

Unless you're driving a Honda Civic..

[DirtyD]

No he's got Daniel from Triangle Speed Shop in Houston remote tuning.
That's interesting to know.

[DirtyD]

The fact is that TS isn't hurting because of this. They just moved into a bigger facility and hired a couple more mechanics.

Hopefully they do better work than Toby did on Brent's car (twice) and David's car

[62nalide]

No he's got Daniel from Triangle Speed Shop in Houston remote tuning.

Remote tuning can be better than a bad local tuner lol
My car has been remote tuned since day 1 and people question it lol

[Phuck Phace]

Hey guys!

[Grandpa]

Nic texted me asking me if I wanted to race. So since it's him asking to race, it's my call on what the race.

Nic - So, since you drug this blown C7 so badly. I think a fair race is a dead stop race and I get the move. :)

[Midnight11]

Steve wants everything in his favor. I just asked you if you want to since you were doing all this talk

[Grandpa]

Steve wants everything in his favor. I just asked you if you want to since you were doing all this talk

Everything in my favor? Are you high on something? You make 700rw in a MUCH lighter car. You make WAY more power than I do. Should be easy win for you.


Only talking I have done is laughing at you for picking on Donnie. That was some gay shit right there.

[Midnight11]

Donnie is a big boy he can handle himself.

I don't make 700hp either. How much is your shot

[Doug1227]

Oh hai guyz....

[Grandpa]

Donnie is a big boy he can handle himself.

I don't make 700hp either. How much is your shot

Ok, you made 685/525. Still more than me in a much lighter car. You are also on a drag radial and I'm on a regular old street radial. I'm going to just spin my ass off anyways. This should be an EASY win for you. I don't even get why you are thinking twice about it. I should be asking for some car lengths here to make it even interesting.

[DirtyD]

Nic, aren't you still short shifting at like 6500 rpm?

[yefferys50]

Ok, you made 685/525. Still more than me in a much lighter car. You are also on a drag radial and I'm on a regular old street radial. I'm going to just spin my ass off anyways. This should be an EASY win for you. I don't even get why you are thinking twice about it. I should be asking for some car lengths here to make it even interesting.

It's a centri blower car too so he should be able to get you out of the hole pretty easily...he should lock it in.

[Grandpa]

Nic, aren't you still short shifting at like 6500 rpm?

E85 cars are thiiiiiiirsty!

These race cars picking on four door old man cars with two baby seats in the back is ridiculous! Young whippersnappers have no respect!

[Grandpa]

It's a centri blower car too so he should be able to get you out of the hole pretty easily...he should lock it in.

That's what I'm saying. I'd be all over that if I were him. I'm getting bored over here. This is the most time I've spent online in awhile. lol

[62nalide]

I'm down for any 1/8 mile runs :)
Im all motor but will line up

[Midnight11]

I know your games Steve. You lie about your stuff all the time

[Grandpa]

I know your games Steve. You lie about your stuff all the time

Now that's not very nice. I haven't lied about anything. I may had not fully disclosed everything at first, but that isn't lying.

[kdanner]

Or maybe the shop just can't tune big builds coyote. 1 out of 4 isn't a good stat.

What big build coyote have they ever done? Haven't seen anything even approaching it.

[Grandpa]

What big build coyote have they ever done? Haven't seen anything even approaching it.

Kind of a grey area question, isn't? Wouldn't that depend on one's opinion on what a "big" build is? To one person doing a full build with a NA stroker could be a big build. To someone else, a big build would be a full 275/KOTH 3000hp car.

[62nalide]

I'm down for any 1/8 mile runs :)
Im all motor but will line up

Anyone?

[BLK2012GT]

What big build coyote have they ever done? Haven't seen anything even approaching it.

They have that boss with the turbo 400 and D1 that run mid 9's.

[BLK2012GT]

What big build coyote have they ever done? Haven't seen anything even approaching it.

What's your definition of a big coyote build?

[DR281]

Wow!
There is definately two sides to every story!
Downtime, you were never put off or made to leave or avoided. It was the opposite. I jumped in your car as soon as you would arrive to try to find your complaints. Numerous times you drove the car and said it was good then later had an issue. I went for a ride with you and you said it was good and couldn't make the car act up.
I don't claim to be perfect or the only one capable of tuning a car. However if something is not right I will put in as much time is necesary to make it right. So to say you were avoided is a flat out lie.
There are no injectors designed for returnless or return so that's another lie. There are tons of boost a pumps that are wired up to run all the time with no issue. That does not cause a problem.
You knowingly bought used parts so don't make it seem like we put used parts on your car when you thought they were new.
I am sorry it didn't turn out the way you wanted but you drove and raced the car across the country without issues.
If the other shop made it so perfect for you, why did you make it back to stock?
Again I am sorry it didn't turn out the way you thought or you weren't happy. However we would have done whatever necesary to make it right. No corners cut!

62nalide you are full of it!
Davids car has a problem and still does! A full bolt on coyote should not make 373rw on E-85.
We never tuned the car on E-85, so if you dynoed it with E-85 I'm sure it didn't perform correctly.
We tuned this car a long time ago and it only made 365rw. We told him something was not right. His answer was "I beat everyone".
Months later he decided to add longtubes. So we retuned it and it gained 0 hp. Still made 365rw. When we advised him that something was still not right. Now a full bolt on car with long tubes was making less then stock. When we said we needed to look further into it, he said he was going to sell it.
So with E-85 and this badass tune it made 373rw? Thats supposed to be good? Still less then stock? Wow!
It's no wonder it wasn't running good on E-85 with my 93 tune. However the badass tune was only 8rw over my 93 tune.
I spoke with Noah about this car and he said you are full of shit.
Unfortunately there are customers that are unhappy sometimes. However we will do everything in our power to try to make them happy. We have had deals were we lose money on jobs or bend over backwards to try to help someone. Sometimes people just choose to try something else.

[62nalide]

Wow!
There is definately two sides to every story!
Downtime, you were never put off or made to leave or avoided. It was the opposite. I jumped in your car as soon as you would arrive to try to find your complaints. Numerous times you drove the car and said it was good then later had an issue. I went for a ride with you and you said it was good and couldn't make the car act up.
I don't claim to be perfect or the only one capable of tuning a car. However if something is not right I will put in as much time is necesary to make it right. So to say you were avoided is a flat out lie.
There are no injectors designed for returnless or return so that's another lie. There are tons of boost a pumps that are wired up to run all the time with no issue. That does not cause a problem.
You knowingly bought used parts so don't make it seem like we put used parts on your car when you thought they were new.
I am sorry it didn't turn out the way you wanted but you drove and raced the car across the country without issues.
If the other shop made it so perfect for you, why did you make it back to stock?
Again I am sorry it didn't turn out the way you thought or you weren't happy. However we would have done whatever necesary to make it right. No corners cut!

62nalide you are full of it!
Davids car has a problem and still does! A full bolt on coyote should not make 373rw on E-85.
We never tuned the car on E-85, so if you dynoed it with E-85 I'm sure it didn't perform correctly.
We tuned this car a long time ago and it only made 365rw. We told him something was not right. His answer was "I beat everyone".
Months later he decided to add longtubes. So we retuned it and it gained 0 hp. Still made 365rw. When we advised him that something was still not right. Now a full bolt on car with long tubes was making less then stock. When we said we needed to look further into it, he said he was going to sell it.
So with E-85 and this badass tune it made 373rw? Thats supposed to be good? Still less then stock? Wow!
It's no wonder it wasn't running good on E-85 with my 93 tune. However the badass tune was only 8rw over my 93 tune.
I spoke with Noah about this car and he said you are full of shit.
Unfortunately there are customers that are unhappy sometimes. However we will do everything in our power to try to make them happy. We have had deals were we lose money on jobs or bend over backwards to try to help someone. Sometimes people just choose to try something else.

Ok if I'm so full of shit why did it run faster and mph more than what was done at HPP? I'm going to have to call Noah and question future business with him. If he did I'm full of shit. I took screen shots of this for reference.

[kdanner]

What's your definition of a big coyote build?


I'd say the whole car front to back. Brakes, suspension, axle, engine, trans, chassis. Not the cheap garden variety off the shelf shit you see everywhere.

The build is one thing, then the execution has to happen, it has to perform as it should. An example of which would be Holbrook. 7.90 with a stick and a 2.9 whipple, right off the trailer first time out.

[62nalide]

And what was the response for not making power? You said transmission issues lol

[ShortBus]

So many lolz in this thread.

[DR281]

That's classy threaten him to not do business with him over him not agreeing with the shit you spout online.
Yeah I did think there could be something wrong with the transmission or converter. Since he has a stock converter and it flashes like he has a loose stall.
What do you suppose is wrong since you know everything? Full bolt on coyote with long tubes on E-85 that makes less then my stock auto car made?

[62nalide]

That's classy threaten him to not do business with him over him not agreeing with the shit you spout online.
Yeah I did think there could be something wrong with the transmission or converter. Since he has a stock converter and it flashes like he has a loose stall.
What do you suppose is wrong since you know everything? Full bolt on coyote with long tubes on E-85 that makes less then my stock auto car made?


If I do business with someone and says I'm full of shit I don't need to do business with them. Can you please explain why it made the power and ran what it did leaving HPP? Even though it made what it made it ran very good thos weekend. How is it that Noah picked up that hp and all that tq over your tune?

[DR281]

It made what 8rw more than it made here? On E-85 instead of 93. To me thats no difference. You stated it was run on there dyno with E-85 on my tune. That would explain it not running right since I never got that far. I stopped when I realized there was still a problem. I didn't even finish tuning as I told the customer. I was more concerned with figuring out why it doesn't make the power it should.
Customer stated to me that the car ran great also when it was making 365rw the first time I tuned it. He also told me he beats everyone. That doesn't mean it's right.
Another example of how you can bend over to try to make something right but the customer just decides to go get another tune. Like that was the problem. Yet his car still make less than a stock car and now he is happy.

[Grandpa]

It made what 8rw more than it made here? On E-85 instead of 93. To me thats no difference. You stated it was run on there dyno with E-85 on my tune. That would explain it not running right since I never got that far. I stopped when I realized there was still a problem. I didn't even finish tuning as I told the customer. I was more concerned with figuring out why it doesn't make the power it should.
Customer stated to me that the car ran great also when it was making 365rw the first time I tuned it. He also told me he beats everyone. That doesn't mean it's right.
Another example of how you can bend over to try to make something right but the customer just decides to go get another tune. Like that was the problem. Yet his car still make less than a stock car and now he is happy.

Could be the differences in the dynos and how they are set up as well. There is all kinds of variables something like that could be.

[BLK2012GT]

Could be the differences in the dynos and how they are set up as well. There is all kinds of variables something like that could be.

I'm pretty sure he would know that. ;)

[Grandpa]

I'm pretty sure he would know that. ;)

Of course he does. I wasn't correcting him, just adding to his comment more for those watching the conversation.

[Yagermeister]

62nalide, regardless of who tuned your car and how the dyno was setup (both are dynojets so I can trust the configuration to a better degree than some other type of dyno), I fail to see why you don't think something is wrong with your car. ANY coyote with those mods auto or stick should be minimum 400 rwhp and probably around 420 depending on gears and transmission...maybe even 430. To be saying one tune is better than the other is pretty flawed IMHO when both tuners aren't working with a car that is functioning right. Post up a datalog of each dyno run with measured Afr both banks, spark advance 2, ltft both banks, stft both banks, rpm, vehicle speed, knock sensor, and lambse both banks along with full list of mods and conditions both dynos were run in and also what correction both dyno runs used (sae or std) and a bunch of us here can help you maybe figure out what is wrong with the car.

[blownaltered]

I have to say this shop bashing shit is old beyond belief. It's like it's starting all over again. For the younger guys you don't realize how real this shit can get. This is how these guys make a living. Steve can tell you how bad things got when Gearheads and HPP were going at it. I was there at the track when both shop and customers had to be separated by the cops. This does build major bad blood. That's why I don't shop bash anymore. I take the unanimous everybody does it and everybody fucks up. For 2 reasons, they do and they do. Nobody or shop is perfect. Does every shop have more than one car that has given them a black eye, yes. None of them can deny it. That's why the nut swinging cracks me up. If you like a shop and want to refer them then do so but you don't have to come into a thread and bash the shit out somebody. As a matter of fact I know it has been almost a decade since that shit happened between Gearheads and HPP but I honestly would like to apologize to Manny for my behavior back then. I was young at the time and just didn't know any better. I hope some of you take my advise and learn from past mistakes.

[62nalide]

It made what 8rw more than it made here? On E-85 instead of 93. To me thats no difference. You stated it was run on there dyno with E-85 on my tune. That would explain it not running right since I never got that far. I stopped when I realized there was still a problem. I didn't even finish tuning as I told the customer. I was more concerned with figuring out why it doesn't make the power it should.
Customer stated to me that the car ran great also when it was making 365rw the first time I tuned it. He also told me he beats everyone. That doesn't mean it's right.
Another example of how you can bend over to try to make something right but the customer just decides to go get another tune. Like that was the problem. Yet his car still make less than a stock car and now he is happy.

No, he gained 29rwhp 80rwtq.
So a stock 5.0 can run 7.70s with a 1.80 60ft? Maybe the numbers are not on yhe screen but track #s don't lie. Best it ever ran out of hpp was a 8.15
Only reason I speak is because the owner is a younger guy I grew up with. I sent him to you and to hear and see his car run got to me. That's when PMP came into play

[BLK2012GT]

I have to say this shop bashing shit is old beyond belief. It's like it's starting all over again. For the younger guys you don't realize how real this shit can get. This is how these guys make a living. Steve can tell you how bad things got when Gearheads and HPP were going at it. I was there at the track when both shop and customers had to be separated by the cops. This does build major bad blood. That's why I don't shop bash anymore. I take the unanimous everybody does it and everybody fucks up. For 2 reasons, they do and they do. Nobody or shop is perfect. Does every shop have more than one car that has given them a black eye, yes. None of them can deny it. That's why the nut swinging cracks me up. If you like a shop and want to refer them then do so but you don't have to come into a thread and bash the shit out somebody. As a matter of fact I know it has been almost a decade since that shit happened between Gearheads and HPP but I honestly would like to apologize to Manny for my behavior back then. I was young at the time and just didn't know any better. I hope some of you take my advise and learn from past mistakes.

That's fine but I think the CUSTOMER who spent the money has the right to bash and complain about the shop and work that was done. It doesn't need to come down to a fight and all but shit still needs to be said.

[Yagermeister]

62nalide, if he has the boltons you mentioned he doesn't have a stock 5.0.

[blownaltered]

Ok if I'm so full of shit why did it run faster and mph more than what was done at HPP? I'm going to have to call Noah and question future business with him. If he did I'm full of shit. I took screen shots of this for reference.

You act like all the shops in Dallas are at war and don't talk to each other. They damn near all talk to each other. I can't tell you how many times I have been at one shop and another shop will call to see if they had a part or a question about something.

[62nalide]

You act like all the shops in Dallas are at war and don't talk to each other. They damn near all talk to each other. I can't tell you how many times I have been at one shop and another shop will call to see if they had a part or a question about something.

Dude I know how this works. I am not new to this.
Thanks though.

[62nalide]

62nalide, if he has the boltons you mentioned he doesn't have a stock 5.0.

Yes I know, he mentioned it made less power than 5.0
So I mentioned if a stock 5.0 can hit 7.70s what we did.

[blownaltered]

That's fine but I think the CUSTOMER who spent the money has the right to bash and complain about the shop and work that was done. It doesn't need to come down to a fight and all but shit still needs to be said.

Granted this is true to an extent. But when does that time expire. Do we have to hear the same fucking story for 10 years. I know I'm exaggerating but you get my point. Voice your opinion and then let it go. Trust me I could have a field day about Gearheads but what does it accomplish. The customers of theirs aren't leaving because of what I say and eventually you end up sounding like a dick and nobody will pay any attention to you. There is a fine line.

[ShortBus]

What's with all these "youngster" comments. Not really sure how age has any reverence with having an opinion about a shop that has done shit work to their car or close friends? TS is a joke. They never take any responsibility in they piss poor work.

[blownaltered]

Dude I know how this works. I am not new to this.
Thanks though.

If you think those numbers are good then you are new to this. :favorites37:

[ShortBus]

The shit that has happened to Jeff lol he has a life time hall pass

[blownaltered]

What's with all these "youngster" comments. Not really sure how age has any reverence with having an opinion about a shop that has done shit work to their car or close friends? TS is a joke. They never take any responsibility in they piss poor work.

And how much woke was done on your car there?

[62nalide]

If you think those numbers are good then you are new to this. :favorites37:

What numbers? Track or dyno?
The track numbers are there lol
Car has LT CAI Exhaust and E85 tune
7.70s is good for a car on 20s lol

[DR281]

The numbers you speak of came from running my 93 tune with E85 fuel. Those are flawed numbers. I made numerous pulls with that car making 36xrw. Which is not right. As I said I didn't even finish tuning because I wanted to figure out the real problem. That's when he said he was going to make it back to stock & sell it.
Btw my 2011 stock with a cold air & tune ran 7.7 with stock 3.15 gears. I'm sure 3.73 would have helped.
Why don't you check what a full bolt on auto with 3.73 should run. Either way. If he is happy, that's all that matters. Good luck to him. Just wanted to get the other side of the story out.

[62nalide]

The numbers you speak of came from running my 93 tune with E85 fuel. Those are flawed numbers. I made numerous pulls with that car making 36xrw. Which is not right. As I said I didn't even finish tuning because I wanted to figure out the real problem. That's when he said he was going to make it back to stock & sell it.
Btw my 2011 stock with a cold air & tune ran 7.7 with stock 3.15 gears. I'm sure 3.73 would have helped.
Why don't you check what a full bolt on auto with 3.73 should run. Either way. If he is happy, that's all that matters. Good luck to him. Just wanted to get the other side of the story out.

I am aware of what they run with great DA and track prep. As you saw he was on 20s with a shitty nt05 tire. Either way we tired our luck at hpp. You have tuned a few of my budy's boosted fox bodys and they had awesome results. Unfortunately we didn't and I know the customer service doesn't reflect on you but man your front desk guys should get retrained on that subject. 2 weeks turned into 2 months.

[DR281]

He was well aware of the time frame when he dropped the car off. He knew he did not have a scheduled appointment and would get done when there was an opportunity. He was presented with both options. You can schedule it in and it will be done right away or you can leave it to get done when we have a chance. He was never promised 2 days, 2 weeks, or 2 months. The headers were installed & put on the dyno in a matter of 2 weeks either way. Then we found that the car gained 0 hp with the addition of long tubes & still seemed like something was wrong. So we then began discussing options from there.

[62nalide]

He was well aware of the time frame when he dropped the car off. He knew he did not have a scheduled appointment and would get done when there was an opportunity. He was presented with both options. You can schedule it in and it will be done right away or you can leave it to get done when we have a chance. He was never promised 2 days, 2 weeks, or 2 months. The headers were installed & put on the dyno in a matter of 2 weeks either way. Then we found that the car gained 0 hp with the addition of long tubes & still seemed like something was wrong. So we then began discussing options from there.

Ask Jose what he said when everything was prepaid. Ask what he promised.
But what happened happened. We moved on with it. Thanks.

[Doug1227]

HPP removed my KB, pulled my motor, installed the Aluminator, KB and a return system, and tuned it in a week!

[Midnight11]

Hpp installed my oil pump gears in one day

[blownaltered]

Hpp installed my oil pump gears in one day

Has this thread really gotten to the point where we are now comparing how long it took a shop to install something. This is fucking stupid. Alright shops from now on I want a stop watch at every lift so we can get exact times on how long you worked on cars and compare.

[ShortBus]

I wouldn't let that hack job shop touch my 10 speed huffey. I don't have shops work on my car, my friends work on it and currently am using a Lund tune but going to be switching to HP tuners shortly and having another friend tune.

[Stangmaster281]

Either it's that time of the month for DFW5.0s or there is just alot of sexual tension in this thread. Could be both.....not sure yet...

[ShortBus]

It's funny like I said you call all the "youngsters" nutswingers when are the one getting butt hurt when someone says that dislike TS.

[ShortBus]

And I'll bet going to fuck up there white Boss at RR. Just putting that out there now.

[slim87gt]

No he's got Daniel from Triangle Speed Shop in Houston remote tuning.

This is some what true. I do some of my own tuning and I also use Daniel from triangle speed. Daniel is an awesome guy to work with and knows his stuff.

[downtime!]

Steve wants everything in his favor. I just asked you if you want to since you were doing all this talkDidn't you get drug, twice, by a N/A catfish at the track rental? Are you sure you want to be calling anyone out?

[Midnight11]

Donnie is the king of bitching and moaning

[downtime!]

Wow!
There is definately two sides to every story!
Downtime, you were never put off or made to leave or avoided. It was the opposite. I jumped in your car as soon as you would arrive to try to find your complaints. Numerous times you drove the car and said it was good then later had an issue. I went for a ride with you and you said it was good and couldn't make the car act up.
I don't claim to be perfect or the only one capable of tuning a car. However if something is not right I will put in as much time is necesary to make it right. So to say you were avoided is a flat out lie.
There are no injectors designed for returnless or return so that's another lie. There are tons of boost a pumps that are wired up to run all the time with no issue. That does not cause a problem.
You knowingly bought used parts so don't make it seem like we put used parts on your car when you thought they were new.
I am sorry it didn't turn out the way you wanted but you drove and raced the car across the country without issues.
If the other shop made it so perfect for you, why did you make it back to stock?
Again I am sorry it didn't turn out the way you thought or you weren't happy. However we would have done whatever necesary to make it right. No corners cut!

The only used part I knowingly bought was the blower itself, it had been on the gold car for a couple of months, we both knew that. Everything else was supposed to be new, according to your words. The boost a pump didn't even have end caps on it, just wires sticking out that had been hack spliced into the fuel pump harness and not even soldered. Same goes for the wires up front on the MAF harness. Twisted and taped, no solder. Didn't use the template for the cold air kit, fit like shit, had to cut the inner fender liner to get everything to fit right. Wood screw holding the cold air pipe to the fender, that was tightened down so much it stripped the hole and just spun. Yeah, I made all that stuff up.

And yes, the car ran great at the track, but what I asked for was "drives like stock, just more of it", I believe I even went on at length about not wanting to mess with the way it delivered the power. Your words to me? No problem, we can do that.

As to not running me off, what choice did you leave me? Brad would "forget" to call me back every time I called. When I called back, and got through, it was always the "shop is busy" excuse. I tried to hit him up on FB when I had had enough and was ready to take everything off, and it took him 2 weeks to give me an answer after he said he'd get right back to me.

That's why the car ended up back with Travis. The look on his face when he saw the work was classic.

It was clear that y'all had had enough of me and my business, and had no intentions of ever making it right. If y'all had done things right, we wouldn't be having this conversation now would we?

[BLK2012GT]

The only used part I knowingly bought was the blower itself, it had been on the gold car for a couple of months, we both knew that. Everything else was supposed to be new, according to your words. The boost a pump didn't even have end caps on it, just wires sticking out that had been hack spliced into the fuel pump harness and not even soldered. Same goes for the wires up front on the MAF harness. Twisted and taped, no solder. Didn't use the template for the cold air kit, fit like shit, had to cut the inner fender liner to get everything to fit right. Wood screw holding the cold air pipe to the fender, that was tightened down so much it stripped the hole and just spun. Yeah, I made all that stuff up.

And yes, the car ran great at the track, but what I asked for was "drives like stock, just more of it", I believe I even went on at length about not wanting to mess with the way it delivered the power. Your words to me? No problem, we can do that.

As to not running me off, what choice did you leave me? Brad would "forget" to call me back every time I called. When I called back, and got through, it was always the "shop is busy" excuse. I tried to hit him up on FB when I had had enough and was ready to take everything off, and it took him 2 weeks to give me an answer after he said he'd get right back to me.

That's why the car ended up back with Travis. The look on his face when he saw the work was classic.

It was clear that y'all had had enough of me and my business, and had no intentions of ever making it right. If y'all had done things right, we wouldn't be having this conversation now would we?

This has to be a first, really bitching about Hpp work and thinking Gearheads does good work? Wtf

[DR281]

What's weird is when you came to our shop, you were bashing ghp in the same way. Maybe you were in search of some mythical creature. Some people you can try as hard as you can but you just can't please. I would have loved to see that. Nobody just twist wires together & tapes them. Sorry not buying it. The inner fender must be trimmed for the 4.5" tube. I don't buy the wood screw either. We don't have any of those up there. Maybe they made a special trip just for you. Again sorry you weren't satisfied. Like I said I tried & would have kept trying. When me & you went for a ride you said it was good & couldn't make it do anything you have described. Good luck to you. Keep bashing away about something that happened over 2 years ago. I'm out just wanted to put out the other side.

[62nalide]

I still wanna play heads up in the 1/8
With my NA 5th gen

[blownaltered]

Donnie is the king of bitching and moaning

I believe it's been you crying like a little school girl. I could give a shit less about who takes their car where. Keep up the bitching this is the most action this site has seen in a year.

[Midnight11]

You and Steve need a room lol

Good to see you both out at the track day or any meets. You just before to whine from
Behind the keyboard

[downtime!]

What's weird is when you came to our shop, you were bashing ghp in the same way. Maybe you were in search of some mythical creature. Some people you can try as hard as you can but you just can't please. I would have loved to see that. Nobody just twist wires together & tapes them. Sorry not buying it. The inner fender must be trimmed for the 4.5" tube. I don't buy the wood screw either. We don't have any of those up there. Maybe they made a special trip just for you. Again sorry you weren't satisfied. Like I said I tried & would have kept trying. When me & you went for a ride you said it was good & couldn't make it do anything you have described. Good luck to you. Keep bashing away about something that happened over 2 years ago. I'm out just wanted to put out the other side.
If you remember when I came in, the only thing about GHP I was pissed about was the guy in the front office (I never can remember his name) that took all the information down for the Fox project, and said he'd call me back with prices that afternoon, and 3 weeks later I still hadn't heard anything from him. Exactly why I initially gave Brad such high praise, since he called me everyday with updates in the beginning. I never said anything bad about Travis, and never will. He's fixed jacked up work from other shops for me more than once, including yours. He had the car for two weeks, but when I got it back it idled normally, didn't die at redlights and basically ran just like I wanted it to originally.

And you don't have to buy anything. Myself, Frank Rodriguez (we used his shop) and Jonathan Kelley were all present when we took her back to stock. We couldn't believe the amount of hack work done. The best part of the whole deal was the fact that when Brad did finally get back to em to give me the estimate for removing the blower, the number was $1200. If I calculate correctly, that comes out to about 15 hours of labor. In 10 hours, we had the long tubes off and installed on another car, the blower off of my car, and about 80 % installed on Jonathan's car. All without the benefit of the manual that I asked for from y'all but never received. I paid for everything in the box, did I not?

In all the time that has passed, I had never said one word bad about the shop. My worst comments were "I got 90% of what you promised me" and "yes, he can tune cars, just couldn't tune mine". It was only after seeing the "quality" of the work that I stopped caring.

It's funny too, thinking back on getting started in modular cars. All I ever wanted was a car done by HPP. Everyone that was anyone back then was singing the praises. My first projects weren't "cool" enough for y'all (Procharged 2V car, nitrous 4.0 6 cylinder car, etc.) to even talk to me about back then. I brought the 4.0 car up when y'all were still in the old building and couldn't get the time of day from anyone there. We did manage to get it on the dyno for some baseline runs, but that's as far it went.

What I learned from all this is to be careful what you wish for, since it just might come true, and you might not necessarily be happy with the results.

Anyway, it's all water under the bridge now. Y'all didn't care enough to keep me in the first place, you wouldn't make the effort now, and even if you did try, what is my incentive to think the quality of the work done would be any better now than then? I'm done with new cars anyway, having too much fun with the old Mopars again.

[downtime!]

What's weird is when you came to our shop, you were bashing ghp in the same way. Maybe you were in search of some mythical creature. Some people you can try as hard as you can but you just can't please. I would have loved to see that. Nobody just twist wires together & tapes them. Sorry not buying it. The inner fender must be trimmed for the 4.5" tube. I don't buy the wood screw either. We don't have any of those up there. Maybe they made a special trip just for you. Again sorry you weren't satisfied. Like I said I tried & would have kept trying. When me & you went for a ride you said it was good & couldn't make it do anything you have described. Good luck to you. Keep bashing away about something that happened over 2 years ago. I'm out just wanted to put out the other side.And my mistake on the wood screw, it was actually a sheet metal screw. The type that holds siding on a metal building. Still had the rubber washer on it too.

[DirtyD]

This is some what true. I do some of my own tuning and I also use Daniel from triangle speed. Daniel is an awesome guy to work with and knows his stuff.
This is cool to hear.

[downtime!]

This has to be a first, really bitching about Hpp work and thinking Gearheads does good work? WtfTravis has never let me down. He's tuned a number of cars for me over the years, and fixed what other shops haven't been able to as well. I'll admit, he's had his fair share of questionable shop help, but as far as his work goes, it's always been good. If he has a tuning flaw, and they all do, it's that he tends to tune things very conservatively, leaving a lot of power on the table. And I completely understand why he does that.

[BlackStang08]

Speaking of true street, anyone read their latest google review? A person posted his entire story on there. Short story, TS raked them over the coals and blew up their car. It's a 5.0, might be a member on here?

[Midnight11]

Link?

[BlackStang08]

I'm on my phone and it doesn't show me the link. Just goto google.com. Type in true street motorsports and look at the reviews. It's the one from two months ago. He even tells you how much he spent.

[Midnight11]

Oh yea that was Brandon's car. It has also been sold already lol

[DirtyD]

And now he owns a GM....

[BlackStang08]

Wow, lol. I felt bad for the guy, reading it.

[62nalide]

I'm on my phone and it doesn't show me the link. Just goto google.com. Type in true street motorsports and look at the reviews. It's the one from two months ago. He even tells you how much he spent.

Damn that sucks

[Grandpa]

And now he owns a GM....

What a traitor!!!

[DirtyD]

What a traitor!!!
Why are you still awake? I didn't think it was possible for old people to stay up past double digit times?

[blownaltered]

Why are you still awake? I didn't think it was possible for old people to stay up past double digit times?

He's old so he takes naps during the day.

[blownaltered]

You and Steve need a room lol

Good to see you both out at the track day or any meets. You just before to whine from
Behind the keyboard

What do I need to go to the track for. I drive a vert, I would have to put a cage in it to run. I'm not doing that to this car. I used to race every weekend at the track. My times in the quarter were faster than your times in the 1/8th lol. If I had a 700 hp car that ran damn near 8s in the 1/8th I would fucking kill myself.

As for Friday night meets I never see you there. I make it out to at least 2 a month and sometimes more. I have a wife and two kids. Sorry I have more important thing to do.

[Grandpa]

Why are you still awake? I didn't think it was possible for old people to stay up past double digit times?

Its the only time I can get my running in is after the kiddos are in bed. Lol

He's old so he takes naps during the day.

Fuuck. I SO wish I could nap during the day!! I think I have better odds of winning the powerball than getting two little ones to nap at the same time so I could too. Haha.

[DirtyD]

he's old so he takes naps during the day.
lol

[DirtyD]

Its the only time I can get my running in is after the kiddos are in bed. Lol



Fuuck. I SO wish I could nap during the day!! I think I have better odds of winning the powerball than getting two little ones to nap at the same time so I could too. Haha.
It's called benadryl. Double dose.

But I can understand the running part. It's also cooler when the sun is gone.

[Grandpa]

You and Steve need a room lol

Good to see you both out at the track day or any meets. You just before to whine from
Behind the keyboard

I've kinda had a rough year bro. I'm pretty sure I should get a pass on the last 16 months for car stuff not being so important. Family comes first.

Besides, you gotta post stuff up or gimme a text to let me know whats going on. I'm not online as much anymore these days.

[Grandpa]

What do I need to go to the track for. I drive a vert, I would have to put a cage in it to run. I'm not doing that to this car. I used to race every weekend at the track. My times in the quarter were faster than your times in the 1/8th lol. If I had a 700 hp car that ran damn near 8s in the 1/8th I would fucking kill myself.

As for Friday night meets I never see you there. I make it out to at least 2 a month and sometimes more. I have a wife and two kids. Sorry I have more important thing to do.

His car was down for awhile. Before that he had bad tires and made excuses about racing me. Now he makes a bunch more power and feels froggy to pick on everyone. I aint skuured though. :favorites37:

[Midnight11]

If I had vanilla ices car I'd kill myself too

[Midnight11]

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l185/nlorenzo081/0440A259-EC13-43A8-BB55-306A634BABE1_zpsw30kjjes.jpg (http://s96.photobucket.com/user/nlorenzo081/media/0440A259-EC13-43A8-BB55-306A634BABE1_zpsw30kjjes.jpg.html)
When I read your post this is all I thought of Donnie

[BLK2012GT]

Wow, lol. I felt bad for the guy, reading it.

Shit, David and I got fucked worst.

[J.Shoot]

And I'll bet going to fuck up there white Boss at RR. Just putting that out there now.

I very seriously doubt that.... but whatever. I'll be looking forward to it.

I'll also be at Ennis on Nov. 1st. Why don't you come out then as well.....


J.Shoot

[blownaltered]

If I had vanilla ices car I'd kill myself too

Your right I should off myself because I have one of the cleanest fox bodies in town. I get people every time I drive the car giving me thumbs up and make offers to buy it. You have a black coyote that looks like every other car that nobody gives a shit about and now you make power, so now your cool. But when you run 7.8, I have you tell you your not cool. Your slow and people point and laugh

[blownaltered]

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l185/nlorenzo081/0440A259-EC13-43A8-BB55-306A634BABE1_zpsw30kjjes.jpg (http://s96.photobucket.com/user/nlorenzo081/media/0440A259-EC13-43A8-BB55-306A634BABE1_zpsw30kjjes.jpg.html)
When I read your post this is all I thought of Donnie

Funny pic. I was actually fast through most of the 2000s. I'll admit I used to be fast but that's better than you because you have never been fast. At least I have done it.

[ShortBus]

You seriously doubt that? Lol let's see same car with more power? Hmm, shouldn't be that hard to see why? Sure I'll come out to any 1/4 and run you as soon as you agree to come to a track and race around some turns. Would never happen bc you have bastsrdizes you car from something that handles very well to a straight line car. Cool if that's your thing but not mine. If you notice I said I'll drag that thing from a roll race. Shouldn't be to hard to get me from a dead stop with a th400 lol

[ShortBus]

Taken the car apart right now should have it back together right around nov. 1st. I'll be looking for you at Coit around then or RR.

[Midnight11]

Your right I should off myself because I have one of the cleanest fox bodies in town. I get people every time I drive the car giving me thumbs up and make offers to buy it. You have a black coyote that looks like every other car that nobody gives a shit about and now you make power, so now your cool. But when you run 7.8, I have you tell you your not cool. Your slow and people point and laugh

Haha keep telling your self that big guy ;)

[Midnight11]

Funny pic. I was actually fast through most of the 2000s. I'll admit I used to be fast but that's better than you because you have never been fast. At least I have done it.

Cool story bro I didn't have a license back then

[Grandpa]

Cool story bro I didn't have a license back then

Soooo, I never got an answer. Dead stop race. You ready?

Sooner the better. My car goes back to the shop for another round of mods soon. ;)

[blownaltered]

You seriously doubt that? Lol let's see same car with more power? Hmm, shouldn't be that hard to see why? Sure I'll come out to any 1/4 and run you as soon as you agree to come to a track and race around some turns. Would never happen bc you have bastsrdizes you car from something that handles very well to a straight line car. Cool if that's your thing but not mine. If you notice I said I'll drag that thing from a roll race. Shouldn't be to hard to get me from a dead stop with a th400 lol

Lmao this is great. You call out the guy to a race with stipulations so you won't lose. You guys crack me up, if you want to race him he will run you at the track and that car rolls out hard from a roll with that transmission. Vic barely got around him at RR and toll me to my face he was giving it all he had to get around him. So for a roll if you can't hang with Vic you might be in trouble.

As for him turning the car into a straight line racer, how is that fucking up his car. He likes drag racing so he built it for that. You apparently like road racing so you didn't do what he did. I never can understand this argument. Because you don't like something the other guy is a dip shit for doing it to his car.

[ShortBus]

Are you stupid or somerhing? Or can't read?

[Grandpa]

Taken the car apart right now should have it back together right around nov. 1st. I'll be looking for you at Coit around then or RR.

Feldman tells me we share another hobby outside of racing. Ready to roll? :favorites37:

[Grandpa]

Are you stupid or somerhing? Or can't read?

Take it easy..

[ShortBus]

Listen here you TS nutswinger. I clearly said I would race him at the RR event. Which is a roll race. He is who changed up the race on me to a dig race which is why I responded with what I did I have no problem saying he should drag my ass from a dead stop. From a roll different story.

Clearly you don't know my car and actually it us running very well. Plenty of videos of it, we just decided to pull and do a mild build on the motor.

[blownaltered]

Are you stupid or somerhing? Or can't read?

Wow quick with personal insult aren't we there Nancy.

[Midnight11]

Lmao this is great. You call out the guy to a race with stipulations so you won't lose. You guys crack me up, if you want to race him he will run you at the track and that car rolls out hard from a roll with that transmission. Vic barely got around him at RR and toll me to my face he was giving it all he had to get around him. So for a roll if you can't hang with Vic you might be in trouble.

As for him turning the car into a straight line racer, how is that fucking up his car. He likes drag racing so he built it for that. You apparently like road racing so you didn't do what he did. I never can understand this argument. Because you don't like something the other guy is a dip shit for doing it to his car.

Laughing Bc this is what Steve is doing

[ShortBus]

Yes!! This is awesome! ! Bring on the butt hurt all the TS lovers

[ShortBus]

I'm not sure what is more laughable. Someone who makes a comment about nick picking on you bc he has more hp. Or your comment about you being 100 lbs more then me and asking if I want to roll with you? First off yes I will, the only person who has something to lose is you.

[J.Shoot]

Taken the car apart right now should have it back together right around nov. 1st. I'll be looking for you at Coit around then or RR.

I live to far away to run over to the Coit meet... but maybe sometime when we don't have other commitments....
I set the car up for what I wanted, straight line racing is what we like, so that's what we did.
If your not set up for a dig race we will run you from a roll.... don't mind that at all.

[blownaltered]

Listen here you TS nutswinger. I clearly said I would race him at the RR event. Which is a roll race. He is who changed up the race on me to a dig race which is why I responded with what I did I have no problem saying he should drag my ass from a dead stop. From a roll different story.

Clearly you don't know my car and actually it us running very well. Plenty of videos of it, we just decided to pull and do a mild build on the motor.

Lmao this is great. I could care less who takes their car to which shop. There is not one post in here saying that I think ts is better than HPP. All I have stated is both shops have blown up cars and so has every shop in Dallas, so let's get that straight first. Clearly I don't know anything about your car or you and could give a shit less. Matter of fact the only reason I know anything about the other guys car is because I saw it at RR. I'm in here giving people shit that I actually know. To me this all in good fun, apparently you think everything is serious.

[ShortBus]

And like I said can you not read? I called him out at RR lol not a dig. He's the one changing the stipulations. . Hints why I said as soon as he races me at the track.

[ShortBus]

What's funny is you say I take everything going serious when I just happen to disagree with what happens to be coming out of your mouth. I could care less as well. I don't use HPP obviously not TS either. My friends works on my car. Wouldn't let anyone else touch it after seeing the work these shops do. All have there issues correct.

[J.Shoot]

Taken the car apart right now should have it back together right around nov. 1st. I'll be looking for you at Coit around then or RR.

And just so you know, I don't have a clue what car you have, how much power it makes or anything about you..... I don't really care, I'll still run you.

[ShortBus]

And it's nothing personal about the white Boss I think it's a bad ass car. Hints why I want to run him by I know it moves out. I think that's a good goal to have to beat his car. I just can't stand who built his car.

[blownaltered]

And like I said can you not read? I called him out at RR lol not a dig. He's the one changing the stipulations. . Hints why I said as soon as he races me at the track.

Hahaha your cracking me up. I just keep imagining a guy smashing keyboards every time he types.

[ShortBus]

I have the school bus yellow LS running around. It's a blower car. Nothing crazy just a little tvs

[ShortBus]

Ni more like a guy sitting taking a shit laughing while on the toilet.

[J.Shoot]

I have the school bus yellow LS running around. It's a blower car. Nothing crazy just a little tvs

Cool, if we have a time we can make it over after nov. 1st but before RR I'll let you know. We just like to race.... we don't care who it is....

Look forward to meeting you...

J.Shoot

[Grandpa]

Laughing Bc this is what Steve is doing

How so? You keep saying that, but your argument holds no water AT ALL. You make more power, in a MUCH lighter car on a drag radial. I'm on 93, 4600lb car on a regular radial. You're just afraid you're going to blow the tires off your car having to launch it and you know it. Guess what, I have the same issue being on a regular radial.

[ShortBus]

Likewise man, same over here, I just like to run the cars and have fun that's why we all spend so much time on them. Nothing personal over here, you have a real nice car and want to put them side by side.

[Midnight11]

How so? You keep saying that, but your argument holds no water AT ALL. You make more power, in a MUCH lighter car on a drag radial. I'm on 93, 4600lb car on a regular radial. You're just afraid you're going to blow the tires off your car having to launch it and you know it. Guess what, I have the same issue being on a regular radial.

Okay Steve I'll run you whatever race you want

[Grandpa]

Okay Steve I'll run you whatever race you want

Geez, was that so hard? lol. You're gonna destroy me either way, I don't see why it matters. Haha.

[White_lightning]

And I'll bet going to fuck up there white Boss at RR. Just putting that out there now.

https://media.giphy.com/media/mmaMTz2eOsucw/giphy.gif

[White_lightning]

Lmao this is great. You call out the guy to a race with stipulations so you won't lose. You guys crack me up, if you want to race him he will run you at the track and that car rolls out hard from a roll with that transmission. Vic barely got around him at RR and toll me to my face he was giving it all he had to get around him. So for a roll if you can't hang with Vic you might be in trouble.

As for him turning the car into a straight line racer, how is that fucking up his car. He likes drag racing so he built it for that. You apparently like road racing so you didn't do what he did. I never can understand this argument. Because you don't like something the other guy is a dip shit for doing it to his car.

LOL @ Barely getting around :)


LOLz..

[White_lightning]

I'm not sure what is more laughable. Someone who makes a comment about nick picking on you bc he has more hp. Or your comment about you being 100 lbs more then me and asking if I want to roll with you? First off yes I will, the only person who has something to lose is you.

If you guys roll.. ill bring the baby oil.. backing powder and video camera...


i even have the perfect sound track:)
0UIB9Y4OFPs

[White_lightning]

I wonder.. if Short buss DOES beat the boss.. if there will be a yelling match about about how someone needs to be DQ'ed because they "let out"
LOL...
just sayin...

[Grandpa]

I'm not sure what is more laughable. Someone who makes a comment about nick picking on you bc he has more hp. Or your comment about you being 100 lbs more then me and asking if I want to roll with you? First off yes I will, the only person who has something to lose is you.

Awefully sensitive aren't ya? Defensive as fuck. Dude, calm down. If you're already making excuses about weight differences then you must not be very good. I was just bringing some humor to the thread cuz it's getting too serious in here. Fuck.

[White_lightning]

Awefully sensitive aren't ya? Defensive as fuck. Dude, calm down. If you're already making excuses about weight differences then you must not be very good. I was just bringing some humor to the thread cuz it's getting too serious in here. Fuck.

just a question.. how is a 100lbs weight difference not a big deal?

thats like me calling steve out to Lift and tell himg him he has to lift what i do.....

the FIRST thing he would bring up is " well you weigh more than me."

[ShortBus]

Bahahahaha this guy. . Excuses? The only person getting there feathers ruffled is you. Yeah you call me out to roll and I'm the defensive one bc I point out the obvious? That there is a good 100lbs between the 2 of us? I shouldn't hear much out of when about why my car drags your up and down the highway when I ask you to race then? HP difference doesn't matter right? Great logic. Like I said your the only person who has something to lose bc with that weight difference skill doesn't come into play, I'm expected to, but if I do beat you, you will look very foolish. Gi or no Gi? Doesn't matter to me, and yes I'm terrible.

[ShortBus]

That's the other thing no one is getting serious in here other then you guys. I just said TS sucks and I think Clint is a pos for the way he conducts himself and does business.

[White_lightning]

Awefully sensitive aren't ya? Defensive as fuck. Dude, calm down. If you're already making excuses about weight differences then you must not be very good. I was just bringing some humor to the thread cuz it's getting too serious in here. Fuck.

Bahahahaha this guy. . Excuses? The only person getting there feathers ruffled is you. Yeah you call me out to roll and I'm the defensive one bc I point out the obvious? That there is a good 100lbs between the 2 of us? I shouldn't hear much out of when about why my car drags your up and down the highway when I ask you to race then? HP difference doesn't matter right? Great logic. Like I said your the only person who has something to lose bc with that weight difference skill doesn't come into play, I'm expected to, but if I do beat you, you will look very foolish. Gi or no Gi? Doesn't matter to me, and yes I'm terrible.


knowing you both.. this fued actually makes me Lol.. the same thing would be accomlished if you guys stood infront of a mirror and argued:)

its like 2 sides to the same coin. and because you are back to back you cant see it.. :)

come down guys.. :)

[Grandpa]

just a question.. how is a 100lbs weight difference not a big deal?

thats like me calling steve out to Lift and tell himg him he has to lift what i do.....

the FIRST thing he would bring up is " well you weigh more than me."

BJJ is about leverage, not strength. Weight lifting and BJJ are polar opposites of one another. If he has any skill or talent what so ever he could just as easily use that weight difference against me.

[ShortBus]

Please don't say we're anything alike lol

[BLK2012GT]

Is this post really turning into a weight lifting and BJJ thread now? Fucking fags.

[White_lightning]

BJJ is about leverage, not strength. Weight lifting and BJJ are polar opposites of one another. If he has any skill or talent what so ever he could just as easily use that weight difference against me.

So you are saying.. if you are on your back with a 140 lbs BJJ guy holding you down.. its just as easy to get him off you as it would a 300 lbs BJJ guy holding you down?

[White_lightning]

is this post really turning into a weight lifting and bjj thread now? Fucking fags.

shut your whore mouf!!!.

:d

[ShortBus]

You wanna get in on the baby oil match jeff?

[Grandpa]

Bahahahaha this guy. . Excuses? The only person getting there feathers ruffled is you. Yeah you call me out to roll and I'm the defensive one bc I point out the obvious? That there is a good 100lbs between the 2 of us? I shouldn't hear much out of when about why my car drags your up and down the highway when I ask you to race then? HP difference doesn't matter right? Great logic. Like I said your the only person who has something to lose bc with that weight difference skill doesn't come into play, I'm expected to, but if I do beat you, you will look very foolish. Gi or no Gi? Doesn't matter to me, and yes I'm terrible.

What makes you think my feathers are ruffled? Not in the slightest really. You are a friend of Dave's and he told me about you. I was bringing some humor to the thread to change the subject and you took it as a call out. lol.

Forget I said anything about it.

[ShortBus]

Again no skill just started. I'm a scrub and have no ground game. We will have to roll sooner then later.

[BLK2012GT]

You wanna get in on the baby oil match jeff?

Name a time and place?

[ShortBus]

I'm aware of what it takes to win at BJJ but hints why there are weight divisions at tournys.

[BLK2012GT]

There will be more pelvis thrusting then hitting from me. Just warning ya.

[ShortBus]

Whatever I'm at home depot my favorite place in the world. Lol time to get to work boys. I'll talk to you all soon. Toodles

[DirtyD]

As for him turning the car into a straight line racer, how is that fucking up his car. He likes drag racing so he built it for that. You apparently like road racing so you didn't do what he did. I never can understand this argument. Because you don't like something the other guy is a dip shit for doing it to his car.

What he is saying is why spend the money on a Boss, and the completely tear out everything that Ford put in the car for a purpose? If you want to make a straight line car, buy a normal GT, and build a motor for that instead of tearing out everything that makes a Boss and Boss....

[BLK2012GT]

What he is saying is why spend the money on a Boss, and the completely tear out everything that Ford put in the car for a purpose? If you want to make a straight line car, buy a normal GT, and build a motor for that instead of tearing out everything that makes a Boss and Boss....

I think it's cool as fuck making a drag car out of a boss. Who gives a fuck?

[White_lightning]

Is this post really turning into a weight lifting and BJJ thread now? Fucking fags.

What he is saying is why spend the money on a Boss, and the completely tear out everything that Ford put in the car for a purpose? If you want to make a straight line car, buy a normal GT, and build a motor for that instead of tearing out everything that makes a Boss and Boss....

all you coyote guys are dumb imo....

should have bought an 86 4 eye fox and put 5k into it.. that shit would will race wars!!! 4 eye fox.. the ONLY way to mustang....


you know how fast you could make a fox for the price of a new gt????:)

[Grandpa]

Is this post really turning into a weight lifting and BJJ thread now? Fucking fags.

Well, the racing shit is over now. Nothing will most likely come of it as usual. Seems like the only way someone will race around here is if they have every advantage in the world even in a race where he should easily win! lmao.

So you are saying.. if you are on your back with a 140 lbs BJJ guy holding you down.. its just as easy to get him off you as it would a 300 lbs BJJ guy holding you down?

With the proper technique and leverage, a smaller man can compete with a much larger one. My coach weighs 190lbs, but he feels like he weighs 500lbs when mounted. Strength/weight only matter when players are on different levels of skill. Technique being even, weight/strength is nullified.

[BLK2012GT]

Well, the racing shit is over now. Nothing will most likely come of it as usual. Seems like the only way someone will race around here is if they have every advantage in the world even in a race where he should easily win! lmao.



With the proper technique and leverage, a smaller man can compete with a much larger one. My coach weighs 190lbs, but he feels like he weighs 500lbs when mounted. Strength/weight only matter when players are on different levels of skill. Technique being even, weight/strength is nullified.

I'll race your POS from a dig, roll, off raiding IDGAF.