z/28 review. .

[fordplay]

I'm sorry does anyone else think these numbers are just lacking?? How is this car 200 lbs heavier than ours? And how is it so slow??

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2014-chevrolet-camaro-z-28-road-test-review

[Dominic Toretto]

IB4GMCARSSUCKASS.

-Alex

[DirtyD]

It's a legit road course car, but I'm sure someone will come along and say that it has something that is still to be desired.

Hopefully Ford will come out with something in the next gen to come after this car.

[Grandpa]

I take the magazine reviews with a grain of salt. Many of them are biased one way or another being paid by someone. I'll reserve judgment until I see them in actual owners hands to see how they perform.

[DirtyD]

I take the magazine reviews with a grain of salt. Many of them are biased one way or another being paid by someone. I'll reserve judgment until I see them in actual owners hands to see how they perform.
That is if anyone will actually buy one to race it at the road track instead of just sitting in a garage, or being built to run strictly 1/4 (which is incredibly retarded to do)

[BERT]

That is if anyone will actually buy one to race it at the road track instead of just sitting in a garage, or being built to run strictly 1/4 (which is incredibly retarded to do)



[the dude] Well..... that's just like.... your opinion, man [the dude]

[Grandpa]

I believe some owners will race them. Camaro owners are really no different than Mustang owners. Some of them are rabid racers who will take them out to beat them mercilessly and of course there will be those owners who will have them as garage queens only taking them to Cars and Coffee events just to be admired.

[DirtyD]

I'm just wondering how many people will actually pay the asking price + dealer markup for one. I don't know how many GM expects to sell, but I know it will be a limited production run.

At the end of the day, it's still a $75k+ Camaro when you could have a Corvette for almost the same money that will out perform it all day long. Unless you see it from the nostalgia point of view.

[Grandpa]

I'm just wondering how many people will actually pay the asking price + dealer markup for one. I don't know how many GM expects to sell, but I know it will be a limited production run.

At the end of the day, it's still a $75k+ Camaro when you could have a Corvette for almost the same money that will out perform it all day long. Unless you see it from the nostalgia point of view.

You're thinking like a single guy in regards to nothing but performance. Some people need more than a two seater and still want performance. Before buying my V, I was shopping for a Z06 but I just couldn't bring myself to purchase another car that my whole family could not fit into and most likely would not use a lot which is why my 5.0 has sat so much.

In short, I don't think anyone shopping for a Camaro would be seriously considering a Corvette.

[DirtyD]

You're thinking like a single guy in regards to nothing but performance. Some people need more than a two seater and still want performance. Before buying my V, I was shopping for a Z06 but I just couldn't bring myself to purchase another car that my whole family could not fit into and most likely would not use a lot which is why my 5.0 has sat so much.

In short, I don't think anyone shopping for a Camaro would be seriously considering a Corvette.
LOL What? Come on, Steve. That argument doesn't make any sense here. I'm talking about shopping for the Z/28 versus a Corvette for the same price. Corvette will be much better performance for your money. Neither come with a back seat. The Z/28 is built strictly for performance. So why would you try and make an argument that try to not include performance?

[saunupe1911]

Motortrend posted numbers testing in Cali.

0 to 60 - 4.0 sec

1/4 mile = 12.3 sec @ 117.2 mph

lateral Accel - 1.06 g (avg)

Not bad, the car has some grip. But I don't think it was purely anything magical that GM did. It was the 305s all the way around doing their job.

[Grandpa]

LOL What? Come on, Steve. That argument doesn't make any sense here. I'm talking about shopping for the Z/28 versus a Corvette for the same price. Corvette will be much better performance for your money. Neither come with a back seat.

Doh, brainfart on my part. Forgot the Z/28 doesn't have a backseat. My mistake. lol


What puzzles me, is that they supposedly stripped this car down to the bare bones, but yet the car is still 3900lbs?!

[DirtyD]

Doh, brainfart on my part. Forgot the Z/28 doesn't have a backseat. My mistake. lol


What puzzles me, is that they supposedly stripped this car down to the bare bones, but yet the car is still 3900lbs?!
LOL. It's okay. We can excuse the age. :p

This car was optioned with the additional stereo and AC, so it's not truly barebones. I think in complete "barebones" form, at least with the minimal amount of crap GM puts in it from the factory, it weighs around 3800 lbs...still fat.

[Crimson600+HP]

Car is not meant to be a dragster, that's what the COPO Camaro is for. Same reasoning behind people turning Boss 302's into straight line only cars. I never understood why people want to make cars like this a dragster, but to each there own.

Motortrend did a video on the Z/28 recently and the car is a legend. Very reminicint of the Trans Am days where things like the Boss 429 was made (for us Mustang guys). MT had Randy Pobst (professional racecar driver and owns many track records for production cars) run the Z/28 at Barber's track in GA. It's times were faster by 6 seconds than a Nissan GTR I believe. This car will be a legend for people who drive it like it is meant to be used. $75K is not outrageous for this car IMO either. Considering what it can do, it is still a bargain. Also is the last chance for people to get ahold of that handbuilt LS7 before it goes the way of the dinosaurs.

One thing that Randy said that the Z/28 did not put the power down as well as the Boss 302 even though it was faster. Not bad for a stick axle. He also claimed a lot of the Z/28's grip is accredited to the R Comp 305's on the front once they were warmed up. I know for sure my car now running 285's in the front will do a alot more on the road course than it did with the 255's.

[DirtyD]

I really want to know how a Boss LS would compare to this car if they threw some of those same Pirelli R comps on and ran it.

[Crimson600+HP]

I believe they come with the P-Zero Corsa's, which are tech. an R-COMP tire. But the Boss LS doesn't have a square setup (255's Front/285's Rear). I think a 285 all around would help the Boss tremendously, but the technology sinked into the suspension of the Z/28 wil keep the Boss LS far away IMO. I know this is a Mustang forum, but GM has the best suspension products out there for a car company for their performanc oriented cars.

[PCB]

I'll pass.

[Grandpa]

$75k for the car, plus $10-20k for dealer mark up. Add interest and you could easily have a $100k Camaro. Geez, that's nuts to me.

[Dominic Toretto]

I'll pass.

+1.

And I love the car and Chevy. Price is dumb $73,700.00 starting MSRP.

-Alex

[El_Tortuga]

I really want to know how a Boss LS would compare to this car if they threw some of those same Pirelli R comps on and ran it.

This

[El_Tortuga]

I believe they come with the P-Zero Corsa's, which are tech. an R-COMP tire. But the Boss LS doesn't have a square setup (255's Front/285's Rear). I think a 285 all around would help the Boss tremendously, but the technology sinked into the suspension of the Z/28 wil keep the Boss LS far away IMO. I know this is a Mustang forum, but GM has the best suspension products out there for a car company for their performanc oriented cars.


Correct on the Corsas. I chimed in too soon.

Z/28 is badass, but clearly a street legal race car, and not a racy street car.

[BV600]

I don't think you can compare any boss to this, Live Axle vs IRS...

A lot of people complaining about a 75k Camaro, those same people probably are not the crowd GM was targeting. If I had the money I would buy one without a/c and all the other good stuff. You can easily get 600whp out of a LS7.

[Dominic Toretto]

I don't think you can compare any boss to this, Live Axle vs IRS...

A lot of people complaining about a 75k Camaro, those same people probably are not the crowd GM was targeting. If I had the money I would buy one without a/c and all the other good stuff. You can easily get 600whp out of a LS7.

Exactly.

I readily admit, even if I could afford this car, I would not buy one because I am not the one of the target audience. This is like those stripped out Lotus cars that are also pretty expensive. Excellent track cars but, not something you really want to drive daily.

-Alex

[Crimson600+HP]

Definately a fair weather toy for the rich redneck in us all.

[blownaltered]

Is it cool, yes. Is it something I want, no.

[BERT]

[the dude] Well..... that's just like.... your opinion, man [the dude]


The hell with all of y'all for not getting my quote from The Big Lebowski. You all suck!!! EVERY. SINGLE. ONE.


Screw you guys, I'm going home

[Grandpa]

The hell with all of y'all for not getting my quote from The Big Lebowski. You all suck!!! EVERY. SINGLE. ONE.


Screw you guys, I'm going home

Never seen it. lol

[re-rx7]

I said long ago. The 305's are the reason for handling. Cars 1/4 is mehh at best. Like I said I think ford has better engines. When the playing field is equal the acceleration numbers don't lie and the new stang is gonna deliver the rest of the puzzle.

[donutninja]

The z/28 is impressive, no doubt, and I'd love to tear around a road course in one but it's never been my choice, visually. I'd also hold out to see what Ford is going to do with the new 2015 IRS and Boss. (unless I'm way behind on things) I was super impressed by the Fiesta and Focus ST's so I know Ford can build a rival to the z/28.

[Crimson600+HP]

Here is the link to the recent road/track test to Motortrend's YouTube review. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbdhNc_36Kc

I love my Mustang (and would love to challenge and lose to a Z/28), but this thing is out of the Boss's league. The Boss was targeted between the GT500 and the GT. Ford isn't bringing the Boss back, but I am sure a track targeted edition is coming out but not at the level of the Z/28. Don't get me wrong, I still love the ponycar wars that are going on and can't wait for Ford's response but I'm sure the GT350/Mach 1/SVT Cobra or whatever the top dog is going to be called is targeted straight at the ZL1 for all around performance.

I think Chevy did this just to flex their muscles and give a last hurrah to the LS7. This Z/28 challenges the GTR, which is regarded as the giant killer (at $115k+) so to me the Z/28 is a bargain.

[re-rx7]

Gtr challenger on the track my ass. It gets its ass mopped up 1.3 secs in the qtr. The gtr is also a 6yr old car and still the benchmark.

[DirtyD]

Gtr challenger on the track my ass. It gets its ass mopped up 1.3 secs in the qtr. The gtr is also a 6yr old car and still the benchmark.


1/4 time don't matter with this car, so stop trying to use that as a validation point.

[DirtyD]

The z/28 is impressive, no doubt, and I'd love to tear around a road course in one but it's never been my choice, visually. I'd also hold out to see what Ford is going to do with the new 2015 IRS and Boss. (unless I'm way behind on things) I was super impressed by the Fiesta and Focus ST's so I know Ford can build a rival to the z/28.


Boss is done and gone. GT350 is likely the next SVT variant

[donutninja]

Here is the link to the recent road/track test to Motortrend's YouTube review. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbdhNc_36Kc

I love my Mustang (and would love to challenge and lose to a Z/28), but this thing is out of the Boss's league. The Boss was targeted between the GT500 and the GT. Ford isn't bringing the Boss back, but I am sure a track targeted edition is coming out but not at the level of the Z/28. Don't get me wrong, I still love the ponycar wars that are going on and can't wait for Ford's response but I'm sure the GT350/Mach 1/SVT Cobra or whatever the top dog is going to be called is targeted straight at the ZL1 for all around performance.

I think Chevy did this just to flex their muscles and give a last hurrah to the LS7. This Z/28 challenges the GTR, which is regarded as the giant killer (at $115k+) so to me the Z/28 is a bargain.

Ah, I didn't realize the Boss line was over with. We'll see what happens. I think the new mustang is definitely going after the track day enthusiast a little more than the straight line or maybe they're just modernizing. I was never an American car guy until this past year but have always loved the rivalry between the pony cars.

I am going to miss the LS7. heck. who isn't? You can't deny that was a great motor.

[Crimson600+HP]

Gtr challenger on the track my ass. It gets its ass mopped up 1.3 secs in the qtr. The gtr is also a 6yr old car and still the benchmark.

Pobst got it around Barber Motorsport's track in 1:36, the record 2012 GTR (not fully stock) did it in 1:42. I'm sure the GTR wasn't professionally driven, but I'm sure it wasn't piloted by a scrub like me either.

http://www.trackpedia.com/wiki/Barber_Motorsports_Park

By these numbers, it's not a challenger, the Z/28 is a destroyer to the GTR. Also, Nissan has updated that thing like almost every year since its release. I don't think anyone in the automotive world considers the current car 6 years old. I am sure someone will do a comparo against these two in the future though. Edge still goes to the Z/28's Super Trofeo tires though.

[re-rx7]

Pobst got it around Barber Motorsport's track in 1:36, the record 2012 GTR (not fully stock) did it in 1:42. I'm sure the GTR wasn't professionally driven, but I'm sure it wasn't piloted by a scrub like me either.

http://www.trackpedia.com/wiki/Barber_Motorsports_Park

By these numbers, it's not a challenger, the Z/28 is a destroyer to the GTR. Also, Nissan has updated that thing like almost every year since its release. I don't think anyone in the automotive world considers the current car 6 years old. I am sure someone will do a comparo against these two in the future though. Edge still goes to the Z/28's Super Trofeo tires though.

Show me solid proof with the same drivers and we will talk. As is the z28 gets its ass whipped by a 5.0 with radials. A gd drive can make a huge difference. Btw the 2014 gtr is faster then the old. The 12 had alot of understeer Nissan tuned out. Funny they didn't test it at willow. It's slower around the ring then the gtr.

[BLK2012GT]

Never seen it. lol

Wtf is wrong with you? And you were a bowler to. Smh

[fordplay]

If GM was confident about it they would have gone to willow, or laguna, but they didn't, it's great to build track cars, but here is the thing GM shouldn't forget, 98% of a cars reputation here is based from light to light and Saturday at the strip followed by tight autocross tracks, do you think this tank will win on a tight autocross track against a spec miata?? And on the way home when a light bolt on mustang beats it from light to light. Ford knew that, the boss not only does well on the track it kills straight lines. This will suffer the same fate at the zl1, over inflated hype and bruised egos of owners

[BV600]

Show me solid proof with the same drivers and we will talk. As is the z28 gets its ass whipped by a 5.0 with radials. A gd drive can make a huge difference. Btw the 2014 gtr is faster then the old. The 12 had alot of understeer Nissan tuned out. Funny they didn't test it at willow. It's slower around the ring then the gtr.

By 5.0 with radials are you going back to straight line performance? If so thats back to apples to oranges comparison. I think a z28 could do 11s with a good driver on the strip then again thats like boss owners buying them and using them solely for drag racing.

Ive got my mullet wig still from my 4th gens so im ready

[saunupe1911]

Pobst got it around Barber Motorsport's track in 1:36, the record 2012 GTR (not fully stock) did it in 1:42. I'm sure the GTR wasn't professionally driven, but I'm sure it wasn't piloted by a scrub like me either.

http://www.trackpedia.com/wiki/Barber_Motorsports_Park

By these numbers, it's not a challenger, the Z/28 is a destroyer to the GTR. Also, Nissan has updated that thing like almost every year since its release. I don't think anyone in the automotive world considers the current car 6 years old. I am sure someone will do a comparo against these two in the future though. Edge still goes to the Z/28's Super Trofeo tires though.

That GT-R was the Track Edition and not a 2015 model nor a Nismo. MotorTrend has confirmed that they will have a Nismo and GT3 later at Laguna Seca. I just read the article last night on my ipad LMAO. It has info that's intentionally missing from the internet article. So yeah it will have the same driver (Randy), same environment etc....I think it's the annual best driver's car competition.

[BERT]

Never seen it. lol

:Boo:

Wtf is wrong with you? And you were a bowler to. Smh


FINALLY!!

[Crimson600+HP]

So yeah it will have the same driver (Randy), same environment etc....I think it's the annual best driver's car competition.

Exactly and I can't wait to see this type of battle. To think a $75K American muscle car will be competing with a $115K+ Nissan and a $130K+ GT3 is an amazing feat for American car manufacturing.

Show me solid proof with the same drivers and we will talk. Funny they didn't test it at willow. It's slower around the ring then the gtr.

I was just pointing out proof at that track. I even acknowleged that they were different drivers so the data should be taken with a grain of salt. But by the same token you note the GTR is faster around the ring, but they were not piloted by the same driver either. :suicide: Yahoo was the only ones to test these two cars together, but they provide no track times which is lame. Driver said he felt the Nissan was faster with better accelleration, but noted the Z/28 better in the turns and braking department (which on smaller tracks is where time is made). So it is a toss up with these two cars, really dependent on a track. Willow is small without a ton of straights so I give the edge on that track to the Z/28. Open it up with more straights, edge back to the GTR

http://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoramic/how-an-on-track-showdown-between-america-s-chevrolet-camaro-z-28-and-japan-s-nissan-gt-r-changes-perception-190444455.html

My key factor is every car can put a single fast lap down. I know people on track days that put a faster, single lap down in Porsche's, Vette's, R8's, etc compared to my GT. However, I cross the line first because my brakes hold up better (cooling kits and better pads/fluid) and I can manage my tires. But to be able to do that consisently over 20 minutes is hard on a cars tires and brakes, which are the biggest factors on a real track. Therefore with carbon cermaics that don't fade over time and superior tires give the edge to the Z/28. But I am curious to see what these cars do in a comparo. Knowing car magazines, the GT3 will win though (even if it burns down), the Z/28 will take second and get knocked for poor interior build quality (because racecar), and the GTR will take 3rd because of electronics doing the driving for you.

I can't wait till Randy gets in these cars though and does a real/fair test.

[re-rx7]

Based in ring times the z28 beat an 09 gtr. Lolol the gtr is due for a all new chassis soon. The chassis is 6years old and even though they have upgraded it...tere is only so much you can do. Yea 75k and 505hp is heads up with 33k 420. Lol the new mustang is gna be a beast.

Porsche wins because the car is in tune with the driver. I drive my dads 944 every now and then and jeez I love that car.

[re-rx7]

1/4 time don't matter with this car, so stop trying to use that as a validation point.

Lololol does it matter on the gtr? Does it matter on the boss? It matters on any car made for performance.

[STROKD]

I think its pretty bad ass... but I already have a heavy track type rattle bucket on the street road race car, that would make the Z look like a Kia anyway.

I dont know why it has to cost a fortune, but GM will sell every one they can build.

[Dominic Toretto]

I dont know why it has to cost a fortune, but GM will sell every one they can build.

Supply and demand. A Bugatti doesn't need to cost over $1mill but, people will gladly shell out the money for one.

-Alex

[Grandpa]

I dont know why it has to cost a fortune, but GM will sell every one they can build.

Absolutely. There are more than enough diehards who will buy those things up. It's good for everyone when they manufacturers have these horsepower wars because they build better cars on both sides of the fence.

I don't know why so many Stangers are hell bent with this Z/28. It's was the same way when the ZL1 came out. I rarely see ZL1's running around town or at the meets. I'm sure it will be the same way with the Z/28.

[STROKD]

Supply and demand. A Bugatti doesn't need to cost over $1mill but, people will gladly shell out the money for one.

-Alex

Actually, Veyrons cost more than they sell for to build... This Camaro doesnt. its just GM being greedy ass holes like they are with the C7 and their big trucks.

[Grandpa]

Actually, Veyrons cost more than they sell for to build... This Camaro doesnt. its just GM being greedy ass holes like they are with the C7 and their big trucks.

Damn Obama Motors!

[re-rx7]

Gm has enough shit to wry about while trying to be fastest. These niche cars don't make money and their new trucks sales have been dismal.

[Crimson600+HP]

Watch "2014 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28 vs. 2014 Nissan GT-R T…" on YouTube
2014 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28 vs. 2014 Nissan GT-R T…: http://youtu.be/PqkyWhVBSKU

Pobst just drove both on the same track same day. Almost even, but the Z/28 was a couple tenths faster. Considering that those brakes are a $20K option on Porsche's, I still say this is a bargain for what it can do.

[Dominic Toretto]

Actually, Veyrons cost more than they sell for to build... This Camaro doesnt. its just GM being greedy ass holes like they are with the C7 and their big trucks.

Cool.

-Alex

[Grandpa]

Gm has enough shit to wry about while trying to be fastest. These niche cars don't make money and their new trucks sales have been dismal.

GM's are slow! Wanna race? :secret:

[re-rx7]

I told you I'm Down whenever. If I win does that make my car a better value since its cheaper?

Edit: gm aren't all slow, just built like shit.

[re-rx7]

Watch "2014 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28 vs. 2014 Nissan GT-R T…" on YouTube
2014 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28 vs. 2014 Nissan GT-R T…: http://youtu.be/PqkyWhVBSKU

Pobst just drove both on the same track same day. Almost even, but the Z/28 was a couple tenths faster. Considering that those brakes are a $20K option on Porsche's, I still say this is a bargain for what it can do.
The gtr platform came out in 08. 6 years is an eternity in the car world. The new one will be out soon and I can see it dipping into the 10's like the 911.

[Crimson600+HP]

The gtr platform came out in 08. 6 years is an eternity in the car world. The new one will be out soon and I can see it dipping into the 10's like the 911.

I have no doubt in the GTR's ability to put power to the ground better than anything out there. GTR's will always beat RWD cars at the drag strip and I know that. It will be insteresting to see what or if Nissan comes out with something new on the GTR though.

My thing is power is easy and cheap to make on cars. For being on a track though, stopping and turning are king. Brakes, aero, tires, and suspension, along with the tuning of said suspension, are the real expensive things to develop. IMO, the Z/28 is better set-up for the track right now as power can easily be had (on the cheap) with cams, exhaust, and a CAI to open that LS7 up. For the GTR to catch up on brakes alone is going to run $20-30K.

My argument is the Z/28 is actually a bargain for what it will beat. It's not meant to be a daily driver, more like the Lotus vehicles of late.

[Grandpa]

I told you I'm Down whenever. If I win does that make my car a better value since its cheaper?

Edit: gm aren't all slow, just built like shit.

I suppose that depends on the individual on what is important to him and how the car is being used. If you feel your car is a good value for you and how you use it, then it is!

Personally, the 5.0 doesn't work for me. I like my 5.0, it's a very nice cruiser. But it's not very practical for me to use it often enough due to the lack of space in the backseat for little ones. In order for me to be able to put a rear facing car seat in there the front seat had to go way up to where my wife wasn't comfortable anymore. I ended up cruising it around by myself most of the time the rare times I'm actually alone which is usually only on Friday nights or running some quick errands. So we ended up having not one, but TWO Mustangs that just sit in the garage 90% of the time and that is a waste.

[Dominic Toretto]

I think the most impressive aspect of this car is that a Camaro is legitimately competing with the likes of 911 Turbos and GTR. That's incredible all within itself. No matter how people want to downplay the super impressive C7Z brakes, the great suspension tuning, the fully built LS7 with Mahle pistons, dry sump, Recaros, weight reduction, Tremec TR6060, aero etc etc, this is a fucking Camaro beating a GTR.... A Camaro... a bone stock Camaro. A say plus 1 to GM.

-Alex

[Grandpa]

I think the most impressive aspect of this car is that a Camaro is legitimately competing with the likes of 911 Turbos and GTR. That's incredible all within itself. No matter how people want to downplay the super impressive C7Z brakes, the great suspension tuning, the fully built LS7 with Mahle pistons, dry sump, Recaros, weight reduction, Tremec TR6060, aero etc etc, this is a fucking Camaro beating a GTR.... A Camaro... a bone stock Camaro. A say plus 1 to GM.

-Alex

I agree.

I'm hoping this Z/28 being so good will make Ford really step up their game too. They aren't telling us much about the upcoming models and SVT stuff yet. Should be interesting to see what happens.

[Grandpa]

On a side note of the GTR -

I don't know how many of you have driven one, but I have. It's an AMAZING machine in every facet of what it does. It's fast, solid, very sure footed all the things you heard the magazines rave about, it meets all the hype. But one thing the magazines do not tell you is how fucking boring a GTR is to drive after awhile.

The car is a technical marvel for sure, but in doing so with all of its electronic driver babysitter nannies on it, it really does everything for you. Your Grandma could literally drive a GTR fast because it's so stable.

If you like that type of car, that's fine. But if you like a drivers car then a GTR isn't for you.

[Dominic Toretto]

The car is a technical marvel for sure, but in doing so with all of its electronic driver babysitter nannies on it, it really does everything for you. Your Grandma could literally drive a GTR fast because it's so stable.

Exactly. I never understood what the point of people bringing up the driver of a GTR. Like it matters. The car is as fast with a fetus in the driving seat as it is with the Stig.

-Alex

[BERT]

Exactly. I never understood what the point of people bringing up the driver of a GTR. Like it matters. The car is as fast with a fetus in the driving seat as it is with the Stig.

-Alex



That's it!!! Now I want to see this

[Crimson600+HP]

[Top Gear UK Music]

[Clarkson Voice]
Tonight on Top Gear...Can a Fetus beat the Stig?

[Dominic Toretto]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbdhNc_36Kc

Listen Randy's comments about the Z/28 vs the Boss 302 Laguna Seca. His words not mine. Flame suit and hazmat suit on.

-Alex

[re-rx7]

In today's news. Gm stock fell 15%. Lol keep building shit.

[Grandpa]

In today's news. Gm stock fell 15%. Lol keep building shit.

More todays news...my GM is faster than your Ford and handles better too! =)

[re-rx7]

Your v out handles a 5.0 now. Wow wow wow. Maybe with a decent driver which I'm sure it doesn't. Lololol ;)

[DirtyD]

In today's news. Gm stock fell 15%. Lol keep building shit.


That's because of recall-gate or ignition-gate, whatever you want to call it.

GM fucked themselves.

[Grandpa]

Your v out handles a 5.0 now. Wow wow wow. Maybe with a decent driver which I'm sure it doesn't. Lololol ;)

You're uninformed if you think it doesn't..

[re-rx7]

Well letsgo to dkc. All karts are the same and see who sets the faster time.

[Grandpa]

Well letsgo to dkc. All karts are the same and see who sets the faster time.

I'm talking about the cars. I've never even been to DKC, dork. That's like me saying let's get together to grapple. lmao.

[re-rx7]

Well you were saying your driving skills were legit

[fordplay]

Here you go.. how easy it is to race a gtr The proper way to race a GTR: http://youtu.be/TJmGkWRYWrk

Funny stuff, I'm sorry a 3,900 lbs track car?? And it does have a rear seat because it uses it as a brace, also because if they removed it it would be a 2 seater and compete with the vette... GM said nope. Lastly.. you forget this car is still GM (poor) engineering, when you design a car for plan for the future, you plan for what people will do to the car, you take into consideration repairs. .. GM does none of that, everyone here knows of the camaro heater core replacement debacle. We have all wrenched on our mustangs, most things seem thought out right? Replacement part prices are low, most mod parts bolt right up, the cai on this car is the easiest I've ever done. The front brembo brakes were designed to out brake the camaro while still being able to bolt on the most widely used drag rims on the back, compare trunk sizes and openings. Back to the z28, look what they had to do to make a car compete, instead of building a proper car they put tires on it that cost $600 each, before import cost, and with 6,000 tread life.. look at replacement cost for those brakes, and the suspension? Dear god that's expensive. . It was designed as a daily driver race car... for the very rich maybe.

[Grandpa]

Well you were saying your driving skills were legit

Please quote where I said that. Oh, you cant..because I didnt.

[Dominic Toretto]

Funny stuff, I'm sorry a 3,900 lbs track car??

Yup, just like the GTR is near two tons.

And it does have a rear seat because it uses it as a brace, also because if they removed it it would be a 2 seater and compete with the vette... GM said nope.

If the GTR removed the backseat, it would compete with the Vette and GM said nope? Uhhh, The Corvette has been aimed at and beating several cars with backseats lol like the Porsche 911.

Lastly.. you forget this car is still GM (poor) engineering, when you design a car for plan for the future, you plan for what people will do to the car, you take into consideration repairs. .. GM does none of that, everyone here knows of the camaro heater core replacement debacle.

Are you seriously suggesting that GM did a poor design on the car because of a failed heater core issue!? If that's the case, then explain the fuck up Ford did with the glass transmission in our Mustangs. People can't even drive a stock GT without having to worry about their manuals whining. Which would you rather pay for; a heater core or a transmission?

All cars have design flaws and crap that breaks.

We have all wrenched on our mustangs, most things seem thought out right? Replacement part prices are low, most mod parts bolt right up, the cai on this car is the easiest I've ever done.

I've put CAIs on plenty of cars. If this was easy compared to any other car then you were clearly having instructional issues. A CAI is easy period.

The front brembo brakes were designed to out brake the camaro while still being able to bolt on the most widely used drag rims on the back, compare trunk sizes and openings.

Now that's facetious. Any review I've read, heard and seen praises the brakes on a Camaro over the Mustang. The 1LE has better than the track pack and the ZL1 will consistently have better braking over a GT500 ALL day long.

Back to the z28, look what they had to do to make a car compete, instead of building a proper car they put tires on it that cost $600 each, before import cost, and with 6,000 tread life.

Everyone on this board swaps out the stock tires for better tires, so what is your argument really? The car costs over $70k, if you can't afford $2,400 worth of tires for a car built for the track... you're doing it wrong.

Look at replacement cost for those brakes, and the suspension? Dear god that's expensive.

The brakes will outlast the car. Why would you need to replace them?

It was designed as a daily driver race car... for the very rich maybe.

Just because you can't afford it, doesn't mean you need to be rich to afford one. Don't use your personal agenda of not making enough money to afford this car to try to criticize it. Honestly, this stock Camaro is competing with cars a Mustang can't. And doing it for relatively cheap.

-Alex

[re-rx7]

75k for a 12sec car? Lol man you get out on the street and get beat what are you gonna say? Follow me to eagles canyon? Lololol

[Dominic Toretto]

75k for a 12sec car? Lol man you get out on the street and get beat what are you gonna say? Follow me to eagles canyon? Lololol

Meh.

Same argument can be said for plenty of cars with less performance. Porsche sells every 911 it builds and anything under a Turbo is slow. Aston Martins are also slow and sell for way more than this Camaro and perform less than it does.

Trying to argue price on cars like this is ridiculous. There are reasons to buy the car that don't include straight line performance.

-Alex

[STROKD]

Meh.

Same argument can be said for plenty of cars with less performance. Porsche sells every 911 it builds and anything under a Turbo is slow. Aston Martins are also slow and sell for way more than this Camaro and perform less than it does.

Trying to argue price on cars like this is ridiculous. There are reasons to buy the car that don't include straight line performance.

-Alex

Well said.

[re-rx7]

Meh.

Same argument can be said for plenty of cars with less performance. Porsche sells every 911 it builds and anything under a Turbo is slow. Aston Martins are also slow and sell for way more than this Camaro and perform less than it does.

Trying to argue price on cars like this is ridiculous. There are reasons to buy the car that don't include straight line performance.

-Alex
Most am are very luxury cars.
Porsche has ac, radio and leather ect. This car is stripped so why doesn't 1/4 mile apply. I'm still tryna figure out why they didnt take the car to willow. Every motortremd head to head is done at willow. The gtr beat the zo6 around that track. At the ring the gtr was sec upon sec faster.

[Grandpa]

Meh.

Same argument can be said for plenty of cars with less performance. Porsche sells every 911 it builds and anything under a Turbo is slow. Aston Martins are also slow and sell for way more than this Camaro and perform less than it does.

Trying to argue price on cars like this is ridiculous. There are reasons to buy the car that don't include straight line performance.

-Alex

Excellent post!

Ever notice the people who continually bring up cost of a car to justify everything are the people who can usually barely afford the car they do have which is barely modded?

[Dominic Toretto]

Trust me Re-RX7, I get your argument but, I too had a reality check. If you look at performance numbers only, there are plenty of cars that are WAY over-priced when you look at just 0-60 and 1/4 mile times.

When I was on Corvette forum people were comparing the Stingray to a Porsche Cayman. WTF a Stingray will annihilate a Cayman in anything, looks are subjective. But all of those performance stats aside, nothing you can do can buy the experience of driving a Cayman. I was with a buddy that went to test drive a Cayman and I was fortunate enough that the salesmen allowed me to go after my friend did and I can say, not that I would pay that much for a Cayman, hey, I understand the price point now.

Just like there is no way to mod a Camaro to have the same experience as driving a GTR. That's what they are selling, to those that care. The people that want the experience of driving a Camaro around a track that beats a GTR is well worth the $70k to those that will buy it.

Long answer short, there are merits that you simply can't put into a measurable statistic. And those that are aware of it, will pay for it happily :)

-Alex

[BERT]

Excellent post!

Ever notice the people who continually bring up cost of a car to justify everything are the people who can usually barely afford the car they do have which is barely modded?




hey!!!! FUCK YOU! lol

[BERT]

Most am are very luxury cars.
Porsche has ac, radio and leather ect. This car is stripped so why doesn't 1/4 mile apply. I'm still tryna figure out why they didnt take the car to willow. Every motortremd head to head is done at willow. The gtr beat the zo6 around that track. At the ring the gtr was sec upon sec faster.



Maybe they were personally trying to piss you off? Cause it seems to be working

[Grandpa]

hey!!!! FUCK YOU! lol

:favorites37:

[BERT]

:favorites37:


I'll be sure to tell you that in person tomorrow night too

[Crimson600+HP]

Lol, fanboys. I guess people can't appreciate a fast car other than a ford or mustang product. Frankly, if the 1LE existed when I was looking at a GT, I would be in that because it would clean my NA Mustang (at that time's) clock on the track.

[Grandpa]

I'll be sure to tell you that in person tomorrow night too

It's hard to talk when you are grasping for air..

[blownaltered]

It's hard to talk when you are grasping for air..

While he's laughing in your face you big pussy. :popcorn:

[Grandpa]

While he's laughing in your face you big pussy. :popcorn:

Time to go 0-401? lmao

[BERT]

It's hard to talk when you are grasping for air..


You're talking about grappling right? :eek:

While he's laughing in your face you big pussy. :popcorn:


LMAO

[Grandpa]

You're talking about grappling right? :eek:




LMAO

That all depends on how wide you can open your mouth...

[blownaltered]

That all depends on how wide you can open your mouth...

Damn I'm not going to be alone with Steve anymore. He's turned into a creepy old man. I thought you bought a caddy not a :van:

[Crimson600+HP]

Where the candy is always free

[Grandpa]

Damn I'm not going to be alone with Steve anymore. He's turned into a creepy old man. I thought you bought a caddy not a :van:

Shouldn't you be somewhere putting a stripper through medical school she will never graduate from?

[Stangmaster281]

Would have been cool if he got the wagon version of the cts-v, then it would be called the Rape Wagon.

[Grandpa]

Would have been cool if he got the wagon version of the cts-v, then it would be called the Rape Wagon.

Lol, nice!

[BERT]

That all depends on how wide you can open your mouth...



You didn't think this through before hitting submit reply huh?

[Grandpa]

You didn't think this through before hitting submit reply huh?

I'm your huckleberry..

[El_Tortuga]

Lol, fanboys. I guess people can't appreciate a fast car other than a ford or mustang product. Frankly, if the 1LE existed when I was looking at a GT, I would be in that because it would clean my NA Mustang (at that time's) clock on the track.

First time out, I was quicker than my buddies 1LE. :)

I've driven his car. Stock vs stock, his was more composed, but my car is waaaaaay better than stock. In fact, neither one of us is anywhere close to stock suspension. Both cars are daily drivers first and foremost. I haven't driven his since he's done coilovers, poly subframe bushings, and we both are upgrading brakes significantly. I know who's winning this friendly arms war, the parts suppliers. :) We both are completely comfortable with our choices. Pony cars are not God's gift to the track, but holy hell is it fun to the hp and torque fly. In any case, its all-American muscle and more brute force and V-8 exhaust note than high dollar refinement. I can respect that. I wish the Dodges would play too, but they are just too damn heavy.

Our next event is Apr 12-13 on the 3.1 @ Cresson. Game on!!!

[saunupe1911]

Lol, fanboys. I guess people can't appreciate a fast car other than a ford or mustang product. Frankly, if the 1LE existed when I was looking at a GT, I would be in that because it would clean my NA Mustang (at that time's) clock on the track.

Same here, but that's my biggest gripe against the 1LE . It took Chevy 3 yrs to play ball with Ford.

[Crimson600+HP]

First time out, I was quicker than my buddies 1LE. :)

I've driven his car. Stock vs stock, his was more composed, but my car is waaaaaay better than stock. In fact, neither one of us is anywhere close to stock suspension. Both cars are daily drivers first and foremost. I haven't driven his since he's done coilovers, poly subframe bushings, and we both are upgrading brakes significantly. I know who's winning this friendly arms war, the parts suppliers. :) We both are completely comfortable with our choices. Pony cars are not God's gift to the track, but holy hell is it fun to the hp and torque fly. In any case, its all-American muscle and more brute force and V-8 exhaust note than high dollar refinement. I can respect that. I wish the Dodges would play too, but they are just too damn heavy.

Our next event is Apr 12-13 on the 3.1 @ Cresson. Game on!!!

One of these days I'm going to make it to an ECR open track day. When I do, I'll drag my roommate and his SS along too. Would love to sync up with some people here to see what we got on the track.

Same here, but that's my biggest gripe against the 1LE . It took Chevy 3 yrs to play ball with Ford.

Truth. Chevy was riding the looks and straight line performance for a while before the road course/auto-x guys wanted more. I am a fan of speed, not brand which is why I love most things that are fast. To people who can't get over brand loyalty, enjoy being second place.

[fordplay]

No... The camaro still has the rear seat, as the article states, the rear seat is the brace in the car... I purchased my 2011 mustang and compared it to the 2011 camaro.. The Brembo pkg out performed the 2011 camaro brakes in every test. As for poor engineering in the camaro.. what's step one for replacing the heater core? 1. Remove windshield. .. yep, why? The screws are located under it? Start looking and doing research, there are class action law suits against GM for the convertible top failures, the pos after thought sun roof that deforms the roof and leaks flooding the back seat, ask any owner how many times they had to re index the windows, since 2010 only 1 of my friends that own camaros had had less than 4 visits for service work. The engineering at GM is so shoestring, the cry since early 2000's from leadership has been "build it for less" ask anyone that works or used to work there.

I'll leave this here for some light reading http://www.camaro5.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=70

We also know as much as we don't like to admit it, somewhere north of 90% of all racing takes place in a straight line, that is where cars reputations are earned, and we all know if you wanted a track car you'd get a lotus like everyone else.

I do see some of you are trying to turn over a new leaf. So we can agree to disagree, that's fine, I'd much rather sit over a beer or steak and talk face to face, you can't tell inflection and people take too much the wrong way online

[Dominic Toretto]

Is there a factory Mustang that can legitimately compete with a GTR or 911 Turbo around a track?

-Alex

[Stangmaster281]

Is there a factory Mustang that can legitimately compete with a GTR or 911 Turbo around a track?

-Alex

Back when the boss 302 leguna seca first came out it beat the 08 gtr's leguna seca lap time. Now we all know of course the gtr has gotten faster since then, but comparing the 08 gtr to the 12' Boss 302 LS is a better comparison; considering the gt-r had 480hp and the boss had 440. If you look just below boss's time you will also find the 06 GT3's time also. The 12' carrera s just barely pulls a faster time than the boss. So to answer question, year for year there probably isn't a mustang that can touch those two; but when they both have around the same hp the boss can put up a pretty good fight. Here's the link btw > http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/laguna_seca.html

[Crimson600+HP]

We also know as much as we don't like to admit it, somewhere north of 90% of all racing takes place in a straight line, that is where cars reputations are earned, and we all know if you wanted a track car you'd get a lotus like everyone else.

No doubt most racing in the USA takes place in straight lines. I would say it isn't as large as you think. Auto-X is taking over the mainstream masses for accessible racing. Particualriy because you don't have to have a fast or modified car. I know there is bracket racing in the 1/4 mile, but it is embarassing to take a 4 cyl car that runs 16 second 1/4 miles to a competetive track. However, that 4 cyl car could run an auto-x course in a stock class. I'd say give it time and auto-x will be the next big thing. Demand is going up for cars that can handle versus go fast in a straight line. Like it or not, car manufactures will build those cars (hence why the FR-S/BRZ is doing so well right now without any force induction).

Also, go to a track HPDE event and you will see a ton of American Muscle. Of all the ones I run it Texas, Corvette's & Mustang's make up over 50% of the cars on the track. The reason is simple, parts are cheap. Replace a part on any exotic/european car and you will pay 2-3x's the prices as our American cars. Given the horsepower these cars push and the aftermarket, it is a great platform to build a track attack car out of. This was a natural progression for Chevy to build this car.

Drag racing will always be part of American culture, but times are changing.

[Crimson600+HP]

Back when the boss 302 leguna seca first came out it beat the 08 gtr's leguna seca lap time. Now we all know of course the gtr has gotten faster since then, but comparing the 08 gtr to the 12' Boss 302 LS is a better comparison; considering the gt-r had 480hp and the boss had 440. If you look just below boss's time you will also find the 06 GT3's time also. The 12' carrera s just barely pulls a faster time than the boss.

There is a big difference in the GT3's of 2006 and the latest edition. Whole platform changes for that car, but the GTR is essentially just been retuned and reworked since 2008. Plus, a 911 Carrera S is not GT3, totally different cars on the track. (Not trying to sound like a dick, promise)

What most people need to get over is realizing that this $75K American track car is outrunning Japanese (costing excess of $115K) and European Exotics (costing excess of $125K) that were designed to be track monsters. There are flaws with the Z/28's design in some areas, but this will be the cheapest turn-key racecar/street car that can be beat up on, broken, and fixed. Virtually, a well off middle class American can now compete with rich owning exotics. I just hope Ford responds by trying to hit a home run.

[Dominic Toretto]

There is a big difference in the GT3's of 2006 and the latest edition. Whole platform changes for that car, but the GTR is essentially just been retuned and reworked since 2008. Plus, a 911 Carrera S is not GT3, totally different cars on the track. (Not trying to sound like a dick, promise)

What most people need to get over is realizing that this $75K American track car is outrunning Japanese (costing excess of $115K) and European Exotics (costing excess of $125K) that were designed to be track monsters. There are flaws with the Z/28's design in some areas, but this will be the cheapest turn-key racecar/street car that can be beat up on, broken, and fixed. Virtually, a well off middle class American can now compete with rich owning exotics. I just hope Ford responds by trying to hit a home run.

Bu bu but... the heater core!

-Alex

[fordplay]

Well you can purchase direct from ford the boss 302R.. before that it was the fr500 .. The camaro does surprising well for it self in corners, and you can attempt to make for 500 I run of me for pointing out simple design flaws but if your design team screws up not knowing the windshield attach points... Imagine what you can't see. Look at the news how many GM cars are recalled now? How much did they hide? if you like GM (apparently) great. slap some expensive parts on a camaro and it can corner.. but it's built on poor design and engineering. You can only lie and cover that up for so long

I agree autocross is getting bigger. We as Americans are learning corners are fun. But I still think it's illegal straight line racing 9 to 1 over corners

[Crimson600+HP]

Bu bu but... the heater core!

-Alex

Truth, such a large issue. Not like those simple things that break on Mustangs...like my blown piston lol.

I am new-ish to domestic car forums (my mustang was my first American car) & they are horrible usually about fanboys. This has been the first one that in have found that has people who appreciate speed/fast cars no matter the brand. I just hope this thread doesn't grt deleted like the Z06 thread because fanboys can't get over their preferences.

[Crimson600+HP]

Well you can purchase direct from ford the boss 302R.. before that it was the fr500.

I agree autocross is getting bigger. We as America are learning corners are fun. But I still think it's illegal straight line racing 9 to 1 over corners

Valid points, but neither of those cars are street legal and are built without VINS so no one can attempt to register one.

Also, I don't recognize anything on the street as racing. All fun and games until an innocent bystander gets hurt and then you are up on manslaughter/murder. The local track here draws decent people for test and tune drag nights, but when an auto-c event goes on there is a ton of people too at a better ratio then 9:1.

[Dominic Toretto]

Truth, such a large issue. Not like those simple things that break on Mustangs...like my blown piston lol.


Right oh and cheap Chinese transmissions. I wonder what's more important to a performance car, a heater core or a transmission lol? Hmmmm.

-Alex

[fordplay]

I agree with the street racing comments. But it happens all the time. I say take it to the track and really try to but it happens, and that's true neither are street legal, but that's not what he specified!! Ha ha! I mean let's face it we are all here because we are fans of the car, but I appreciate all cars, of GM's fast cars. I like the vette. Proper platform, still respect the gnx!! And I'd love a cts-v Wagon it's a giant fu to everyone!! The camaro though was a function follows design vehicle, and I hate it when GM does that, because it take a lot of Money to build that correctly, and they just didnt

And dom you can think the grass is greener on the other side. Truth is it brown, with weeds, and oil stains

[Dominic Toretto]

And dom you can think the grass is greener on the other side. Truth is it brown, with weeds, and oil stains

The most important comment in this thread is when you commented about being able to talk in person over a beer. Like you, I'd much rather do that and I take nothing personal from your posts :). I don't like everything GM but, for the performance this car produces, it's a big achievement IMO. I'm sure the heater cole is a bitch and a half to replace but, that's no reason to deny the performance aspect of this car in my opinion.

-Alex

[Grandpa]

I agree with the street racing comments. But it happens all the time. I say take it to the track and really try to but it happens, and that's true neither are street legal, but that's not what he specified!! Ha ha! I mean let's face it we are all here because we are fans of the car, but I appreciate all cars, of GM's fast cars. I like the vette. Proper platform, still respect the gnx!! And I'd love a cts-v Wagon it's a giant fu to everyone!! The camaro though was a function follows design vehicle, and I hate it when GM does that, because it take a lot of Money to build that correctly, and they just didnt

And dom you can think the grass is greener on the other side. Truth is it brown, with weeds, and oil stains

I like fast cars. I don't care what brand name the car wears. If it's fast and done tastefully, I'm a fan.

As for street racing, its been happening since the turn of the 20th century and will always happen. Personally, I don't go to meets to race. I keep my ass in the parking lot. I think it's the riskiest time to race.

But I'm not going to get on my soapbox about street racing. It's going to happen and always will. It can be done in a safer manner in a deserted area out in the middle of nowhere, very late with a clear line of site and no traffic at all.

[fordplay]

I don't make it to too many meets, and when I do I have my 10 year old with me, but we are going to try to make it to more. At the heart of it we are car people, a car is more to us than basic transportation, because of that we get attached to our beliefs, opinions, and preferences. And when we express them we like to feel the other people heard them, on line you can't see that. I have never known 2 adult car guys to not get along, even if one rolls up in an srt8 and one a cts-v.. oh we will troll the shit out of each other but still laugh it off at the end.

Steve, ever the adult and voice of reason. .. Don't believe me? All Old Response People Drive Caddies!!!

[re-rx7]

Everyone defending gm on here but drive mustangs lolololo

[blownaltered]

Everyone defending gm on here but drive mustangs lolololo

I have a mustang and a chevy truck so I can do both. I'm not buying a new mustang in a couple years, I'm getting a vette. After riding in Steve's V, I would rather have that, then the new mustang. You can sit on you soap box screaming about how great ford is but I have had many vehicles built by both. I can tell you all my chevy vehicles have been just as good as my fords. Only difference my chevy's always got better gas mileage.

[re-rx7]

Ive rode in V's. Just not for me. I like the G8 better.

[Crimson600+HP]

Same here, I have the Mustang and a Toyota Tundra tows it. Honestly, if Toyota threw that 5.7 V8 in a RWD sports car that was halfway decent, I would be driving that.

[Grandpa]

I don't make it to too many meets, and when I do I have my 10 year old with me, but we are going to try to make it to more. At the heart of it we are car people, a car is more to us than basic transportation, because of that we get attached to our beliefs, opinions, and preferences. And when we express them we like to feel the other people heard them, on line you can't see that. I have never known 2 adult car guys to not get along, even if one rolls up in an srt8 and one a cts-v.. oh we will troll the shit out of each other but still laugh it off at the end.

Steve, ever the adult and voice of reason. .. Don't believe me? All Old Response People Drive Caddies!!!

Amen, bro. I agree completely. The car hobby is at the core of what this country is about, freedom and self expression. When the guys came from WWII, they needed a way to still get their thrills and relieve their stress (now known as PTSD). Industry was booming, the mechanics went to work at factories and started tinkering with cars.

While we all have our favorites or preferences, (some blindly so) the hobby as a whole binds us together. We all love cars and everything about them. I'm all for it bringing people together, but to tear people apart soley based on brand is nonsense.


And I'm okay with getting old. The V was the perfect way to start my mid-life crisis! lol

Everyone defending gm on here but drive mustangs lolololo

I own both, therefor I'm qualified to comment on the situation. :)

I love my 5.0, but unfortunately it's not a good fit for me at my current stage of my life with kids. I enjoy cruising with my family and the 5.0 doesn't work for that.

I have a mustang and a chevy truck so I can do both. I'm not buying a new mustang in a couple years, I'm getting a vette. After riding in Steve's V, I would rather have that, then the new mustang. You can sit on you soap box screaming about how great ford is but I have had many vehicles built by both. I can tell you all my chevy vehicles have been just as good as my fords. Only difference my chevy's always got better gas mileage.

Amen!




Ive rode in V's. Just not for me. I like the G8 better.

I'm don't get how, but it's each to their own. :)

[Grandpa]

Same here, I have the Mustang and a Toyota Tundra tows it. Honestly, if Toyota threw that 5.7 V8 in a RWD sports car that was halfway decent, I would be driving that.

Nothing wrong that at all. That motor is made right here in the U.S of A. :)