View Full Version : Nothing like buying wheels..
Then finding out they have been refinished horribly.
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I contacted the seller on eBay. I think it's only fair that he pays half to have them refinished. To say I'm pissed is an understatement.
Grandpa
02-18-2014, 08:19 PM
Damn, that sucks.
Slow Five-O
02-18-2014, 10:27 PM
Damn :(
Seller hasn't replied. Already filed a claim with eBay seeing they always favor the buyer. If I would have known the we're refinished and this badly I would have passed. His auction never mentioned it, and I even asked him in an email why he was selling. It's going to cost me a good chunk of change to get it done right and I think he should be responsible to get it taken care of. Sad in this day in age this passes off as quality work someone was willing to sell.
Whether or not he got screwed or not, me being a painter by trade I would be embarrassed to sell these as a gently used set.
zsommer79
02-19-2014, 11:51 AM
Would just send them back, why go through the hassle of getting them refinished.
Would just send them back, why go through the hassle of getting them refinished.
They have already been sent off. Besides the fact I already bought tires for them, it would be more of a hassle to return them.
gip99gt
02-20-2014, 05:01 PM
What type of wheels are they? Need better pics.
What type of wheels are they? Need better pics.
Machine F14
Got them refinished correctly. Picking them up Saturday.
Still fighting the seller for paying for half. His messages are nuts.
zsommer79
02-20-2014, 05:46 PM
I would have waited until he agreed to pay. What happens if he just tells you to send them back?
DirtyD
02-20-2014, 06:53 PM
What types of excuses is he making?
I get angry when I see people lie and rip off other people just to make some money, when more than likely they would throw a bitch fit if it were them getting ripped off. Honesty just isn't there anymore.
5PointSlow
02-20-2014, 07:07 PM
What types of excuses is he making?
I get angry when I see people lie and rip off other people just to make some money, when more than likely they would throw a bitch fit if it were them getting ripped off. Honesty just isn't there anymore.
Thats the problem with the world today man. too many shady assholes willing to screw people over. Hopefully karma buttfucks his soul :suicide:
I would have waited until he agreed to pay. What happens if he just tells you to send them back?
I have a few options. Right now I have a case open with eBay. I added the pictures I posted here. With my 100% positive feedback (around 189) to his 100% feedback of 3 I have the upper hand here. eBay also favors the buyer in most situations. As you will read below, I will be more than happy to send the wheels back to him with certain conditions.
What types of excuses is he making?
I get angry when I see people lie and rip off other people just to make some money, when more than likely they would throw a bitch fit if it were them getting ripped off. Honesty just isn't there anymore.
I opened the case with this:
"This is for my protection. I cannot afford to wait for you to answer my emails. The wheels in your listing never mentioned you had these refinished. Not only refinished but done badly. When I went to discount tire today to have the tires I already paid for mounted, the clear coat cracked and chipped. (It had already done that in numerous other places on all the wheels). Discount refused to mount the other tires on the wheels because of the damage it would cause. My only option was to use their service to have them refinished with a warranty. They are charging $187/wheel or $750. Otherwise these are $1300 paper weights. If your auction was accurately described as refinished wheels, not only would I have passed, but you would have been over priced. Please reply so we can come to an agreement. "
His first reply:
"1. In the message you stated that I did not say the wheels were not factory painted ("refinished"). In the description I clearly defined the wheels as "Custom Machine Face Silver with silver powder coat". Apart from that, I never stated they were factory painted either. Close up pictures of the wheels showed the finish of the wheel closely. Therefore, the item was described accurately. 2. I had tires mounted and unmounted twice with two different sets of tires at two different tire shops a couple of weeks prior to listing them. Tires can be mounted on those wheels without a problem and I know this for a fact as I had it done twice myself without any problem. It seems to me that you should be talking to the tire shop that you took the wheels to. They most likely tried taking advantage of the fact that you prepaid for mounting to sell you into paying $750 when not needed. If that tire shop can't or won't mount the tires, that is on their behalf.The wheels even had tires when I listed."
My reply:
"Afternoon, In your auction you NEVER stated that the wheels were refurbished or refinished. I quote "The wheels come as you see them, one of them has a scratch as I showed in the picture." You then set the price that was a little overpriced for a used set. (That wouldn't need to be refinished) Per the Selling Policies of ebay: 1. Specify the condition of the item 2. Describe any defects or flaws in the item—this helps avoid problems or buyer dissatisfaction. 3. When selling a used, refurbished, or flawed item, you must include photos of the actual item for sale instead of a stock photo. -Again you never stated you had these refinished and/or refurbished. You took pictures from a distance that would not show damage or the flaws, and you took up close pictures of un-effected areas and stated there was one scratch. I have 6 pictures of the horrible condition of these wheels that you sold to me at a price where they shouldn't have had to been repaired. There is paint/clear chipping/peel"
His Reply:
"Alright, I apologize for the miscommunication that has happened throughout this transaction. I would be willing to refund you $200 to settle this situation and that way you would also avoid having to pay shipping to return the item.
My Reply:
"I appreciate your offer, but you need to pay half of the refinishing work on these wheels seeing that you knew they would have to be done when you shipped them. All I am asking for is half which would be $375. There are two ways we can come to an agreement. Refund me $375 for your half of the refinish work, or I can send the wheels back as long as you refund my money for the tires I already bought, the refinish work I already paid for, the shipping back to you and my original $1289.00 for the wheels. I do not think I am being unrealistic in my requests. You went against eBay policies, sold me a set of refinished wheels and didn't declare it, went out of your way to manipulate pictures and after all this you still have a buyer willing to pay 1/2 to get these wheels fixed when you should have done so before selling. I am still willing to give positive feedback if you are willing to split the refinishing costs. If you think this is unfair we can wait to see what eBay has to say."
I have yet to hear back from him, so I am guessing eBay is going to step in. Bad news for him seeing that I have heard in situations like this, they refund the entire amount and ask me to send the wheels back. I am sure at that point in time he would be willing to pay up.
I am honestly shocked. In his pictures he went out of his way to represent the wheels in a manner that made them looked gently used and in good condition. After inspecting them in the day light is when I saw the flaws, usually I can let a few things slide, but it looked like he took a can of clear to them in his garage. Runs, cracks, imperfections under the excessive clear. They looked horrible.
We will see what eBay has to say. I was hoping he would have been smart about this.
DirtyD
02-20-2014, 09:20 PM
eBay will pull the original listing and see what the description and pictures showed, and compare them to pictures you provide. It seems to be pretty cut and dry in your favor
He just sent this:
I am willing to offer $200 in order to settle this argument but no more. I still know that I sent you wheels that can have the tires mounted on them without a problem seeing as I did it myself twice. My offer still stands. If you do wish to opt to return the wheels for a refund of $1289.00 I am open to that option as well. However, it will be a refund of $1289. The tires that you already paid for have nothing to do with my sale of the wheels. You also should have contacted me prior to having refinished the wheels and then demand I pay for half of it or all of it in the case of a return. This is especially true when there was no need to refinish them. As for shipping back, I paid for the shipping to you and you would pay it to send it back. That is the way returns are normally made when sellers charge a restocking fee. You are asking me to refund you more money than what you purchased from me because of decisions you made on your end (prepaying tires and going ahead and refinishing)"
My reply:
"$375 will settle this. It's fair. You went against eBay policy and didn't declare the wheels refinished. As you can see in my pictures the wheels did needed to be refinished as the clear coat was chipping and cracking off the wheel. Look at the pictures, I am not lying. $375 and it's a done deal. If you decide not to take my offer, I will let eBay handle this matter, and leave negative feedback. Sellers charge a restocking fee when they are honest with the buyers and the buyer wants to return. Not when the seller lied about the condition of the product. I have proof in pictures, you broke eBay policy, and I have perfect feedback rating. How do you really think this is going to go?"
Does this guy really think he is in the right?
Craizie
02-20-2014, 10:50 PM
Most people do think they are in the right. I bought an SCT tuner from an unnamed board member and got burned. He replied back with some bull shit "how do I know you didn't break it" I chocked it up to a $250 lesson learned. Fuck shitty people.
zsommer79
02-20-2014, 11:24 PM
Does this guy really think he is in the right?
No but he knows you want the wheels since you already went through the trouble of having them refinished and if you send them back he has wheels in better shape than when he sent them.. Ya'll are basically playing a game of chicken now.
No but he knows you want the wheels since you already went through the trouble of having them refinished and if you send them back he has wheels in better shape than when he sent them.. Ya'll are basically playing a game of chicken now.
Well everything is in my favor. Rating, membership length, proof in pictures. I'm not that worried.
I just can't believe people nowadays. What happened to respect and pride.
DirtyD
02-21-2014, 12:08 AM
In all honesty Paul, you should've waited to get them refinished. I know you didn't have other wheels to use for the time being though, so you didn't really have much of a choice. Hopefully it all works out.
In all honesty Paul, you should've waited to get them refinished. I know you didn't have other wheels to use for the time being though, so you didn't really have much of a choice. Hopefully it all works out.
Hindsight is always 20/20. You are probably right, and even if the guy doesn't honor a refund, I am not sweating the $375. I feel like he should have had the opportunity to do whats right, and others should know about him.
DirtyD
02-21-2014, 10:43 AM
Hindsight is always 20/20. You are probably right, and even if the guy doesn't honor a refund, I am not sweating the $375. I feel like he should have had the opportunity to do whats right, and others should know about him.
Are you busy saturday? I may head out to take some pics of my car if the weather turns out good, and I don't screw something up installing my LCAs and brackets. We could maybe meet up?
46Tbird
02-21-2014, 10:48 AM
I hate to tell you this brother, but I'm siding with the other guy.
He listed these as "used" which according to eBay means it may have cosmetic wear but is fully operational. By your pictures, this is the case.
It does look like he could have been more upfront on the wheel condition when he posted them. Indicating there was "one scratch" is not true. But eBay gives him a choice of five condition descriptions, and I think he picked the appropriate one. You tell me:
Motors: Parts & Accessories
Condition Description
New
A brand-new, unused, unopened, undamaged item in its original packaging (where packaging is applicable). Packaging should be the same as what is found in a retail store, unless the item was packaged by the manufacturer in non-retail packaging, such as an unprinted box or plastic bag. See the seller's listing for full details.
New other (see details)
A new, unused item with absolutely no signs of wear. The item may be missing the original packaging, or in the original packaging but not sealed. The item may be a factory second, or a new, unused item with defects. See the seller's listing for full details and description of any imperfections.
Remanufactured
A properly rebuilt automotive part. The item has been completely disassembled, cleaned, and examined for wear and breakage. Worn out, missing, or non-functioning components have been replaced with new or rebuilt components. It is the functional equivalent of a new part and is virtually indistinguishable from a new part. See the seller's listing for full details.
Used
An item that has been used previously. The item may have some signs of cosmetic wear, but is fully operational and functions as intended. This item may be a floor model or store return that has been used. See the seller's listing for full details and description of any imperfections.
For parts or not working
An item that does not function as intended and is not fully operational. This includes items that are defective in ways that render them difficult to use, items that require service or repair, or items missing essential components. See the seller's listing for full details.
If you were dissatisfied with the items he sold you, that's fine, but he is only responsible AT MOST for a return of the item. Why would he also then be responsible for the unrelated costs of your tires or to pay to have them refinished?
I think you had a case for a return right up until you had the wheels refinished. At that point, you have modified the item, and he no longer has any obligation to meet your satisfaction with its condition.
Picture this. I buy a car in a barn because some farmer says he has "a nice old car" out there. I have it towed to my house but I'm pissed about its condition when it shows up. So I restore it, then a year later I go back to the farmer and tell him I paid too much for the car and now he owes me for half the cost of restoration. That farmer is going to tell me to pound sand, and I'd be lucky if I don't also get buckshot in my ass.
I understand you are pissed off, and why you're pissed, but caveat emptor dude. You thought you were saving hundreds of dollars on a perfect set of Forgestars but what you really got was a set of used wheels at market price. He offered $200, I think that is more than fair.
This is the listing, right?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Forgestar-F14-Wheels-20-Mustang-rims-silver-20x9-20x11-/261392393932?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Wheels&vxp=mtr&hash=item3cdc3366cc&nma=true&si=IOONPxTwQT0TV4c1IZrV99W6hew%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
I hate to tell you this brother, but I'm siding with the other guy.
He listed these as "used" which according to eBay means it may have cosmetic wear but is fully operational. By your pictures, this is the case.
It does look like he could have been more upfront on the wheel condition when he posted them. Indicating there was "one scratch" is not true. But eBay gives him a choice of five condition descriptions, and I think he picked the appropriate one. You tell me:
If you were dissatisfied with the items he sold you, that's fine, but he is only responsible AT MOST for a return of the item. Why would he also then be responsible for the unrelated costs of your tires or to pay to have them refinished?
I think you had a case for a return right up until you had the wheels refinished. At that point, you have modified the item, and he no longer has any obligation to meet your satisfaction with its condition.
Picture this. I buy a car in a barn because some farmer says he has "a nice old car" out there. I have it towed to my house but I'm pissed about its condition when it shows up. So I restore it, then a year later I go back to the farmer and tell him I paid too much for the car and now he owes me for half the cost of restoration. That farmer is going to tell me to pound sand, and I'd be lucky if I don't also get buckshot in my ass.
I understand you are pissed off, and why you're pissed, but caveat emptor dude. You thought you were saving hundreds of dollars on a perfect set of Forgestars but what you really got was a set of used wheels at market price. He offered $200, I think that is more than fair.
This is the listing, right?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Forgestar-F14-Wheels-20-Mustang-rims-silver-20x9-20x11-/261392393932?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Wheels&vxp=mtr&hash=item3cdc3366cc&nma=true&si=IOONPxTwQT0TV4c1IZrV99W6hew%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
I understand your point of view, and I respect that. He did list the item as Used however per eBay policy if these were refurbished, or refinished he had to declare that. I even asked him in an email before me purchasing if there was any other damage besides what is stated and pictured and he said no.
Now when you look at the auction, you see a gently used set of F14's with one blemish. I was fine with that and the price.
At the end of the day I got a set of "10 footer" wheels. Up close the clear was cracked and chipped. Runs in the refinish work as well. From 10' away they look great. Now i know you don't know me from any other guy however if I did an auction for these wheels, I would have had indepth pictures and stated in the auction the blemishes as well as obvious needing to be redone.
I guess what I am trying to say is, he knew the condition of these wheels and he manipulated the auction and pictures to get them sold at a price where refinishing wouldn't be needed. I feel like I was sold a set of used F14's and got something very different from what his auction and pictures showed. Another problem with his pictures is on his twitter from I believe 3 years ago, he has that same picture. Leads me to believe those pictures aren't an accurate representation of the wheels today.
Are you busy saturday? I may head out to take some pics of my car if the weather turns out good, and I don't screw something up installing my LCAs and brackets. We could maybe meet up?
Sure, I will see if 5O-H wants to go too.
Misrepresentation.
You find your dream car on eBay. Seller takes pictures of the car that has been sitting for 10 years. Pictures of the exterior look like what you expected but nothing out of the ordinary. Judging by the pictures and description of the car, you can hold off on paint for a few years. He shows you a picture of a light scratch that you are okay with and otherwise everything else is up to par he says.
You agree to buy the car and have it shipped upon arrival. As the transporter drops it in your driveway you are eager to rinse her off and get to work on your dream car and a fresh starting point.
Wait... It looks like someone took an SOS pad to the paint.. there is surface rust in the corners by the windows. Someone tried to repair the bottom corner of the back bumper and did a horrible job. Clear is flaking off the rear quarters.
Misrepresentation.
That is not the car that was sold to you on eBay. The seller assured you of the exterior, and that aside from sitting for 10 years the paint and finish was fine. Now you are looking at a refinish and repair work on a car you thought had a decent, not out of the ordinary exterior, and the seller assured you that tiny scratch was the only problem.
I don't know about you, but that chaps my ass.
As an ebay seller it is my job to show and describe the product I am selling to the best of my ability good and bad. That's why eBay has their code of conduct and selling/buyinig policies. To protect us. It is not fair for someone to manipulate the auction and pictures to favor his pocket.
But lets face it. Life isn't fair. Do I need the $375. No. I just refuse to sit and get butt fucked by someone who obviously knew what they were doing.
46Tbird
02-21-2014, 11:42 AM
At the end of the day I got a set of "10 footer" wheels. Up close the clear was cracked and chipped. Runs in the refinish work as well. From 10' away they look great. Now i know you don't know me from any other guy however if I did an auction for these wheels, I would have had indepth pictures and stated in the auction the blemishes as well as obvious needing to be redone.
I think I see the problem here. Forgestar wheels are usually no better than "10-footers" even when new.
Google 'forgestar quality issues' and you will get many hits on many forums.
http://mbworld.org/forums/wheels-tires-suspension-brakes-forum-sponsored-tire-rack/426530-my-forgestar-experience.html
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=944057
http://www.the370z.com/wheels-tires/9977-beware-forgestar-my-personal-story.html
http://www.gtrlife.com/forums/topic/84654-forgestar-wheels-review-well-just-showing-you-the-bs-i-got/
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/330529-forgestar-wheels
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=254608
Are you sure these wheels were ever refinished? It seems like the dude gave a REALLY squirrely answer here:
In the message you stated that I did not say the wheels were not factory painted ("refinished"). In the description I clearly defined the wheels as "Custom Machine Face Silver with silver powder coat". Apart from that, I never stated they were factory painted either.
I don't even know what the hell he means by that. But I do know that the quality of Forgestar finishes are generally "average to poor" with some pretty glaring quality control issues. I'm not convinced the poor finish shown in your photos is anything but typical Forgestar quality.
(sorry, some of these may be huge)
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e133/evilimports/Forgestar%20wheels/wheel23_zps2e3eae56.jpg
http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/4539/pic3uo.jpg
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=431135&stc=1&d=1349820523
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=431137&stc=1&d=1349820701
Those do in fact look horrible, however if these wheels looked like those, I would have them on my car right now and be a happy camper. These were obviously refinished, unprofessionally by someone in a cardboard box.
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.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e133/evilimports/Forgestar%20wheels/wheel23_zps2e3eae56.jpg
http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/4539/pic3uo.jpg
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=431135&stc=1&d=1349820523
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=431137&stc=1&d=1349820701
I wish mine looked as good as the ones you posted.
re-rx7
02-21-2014, 12:29 PM
I dont understand if you were didnt like what you recieved why didnt you just send them back and buy a new set of Forgestars for the same cost it cost you to refinish these wheels?
I dont understand if you were didnt like what you recieved why didnt you just send them back and buy a new set of Forgestars for the same cost it cost you to refinish these wheels?
Good question.
1. They don't make this finish anymore, and trying to find them are hard.
2. By the time I noticed how badly they were they were putting on the first tire and the clear was cracking. (it was globbed on)
3. They had to send out the wheel to be refinished. I chose to send the other three. Damned if I do, Damned if I don't. If i don't get the wheel fixed before returing the buyer will file a claim, If I do refinish the wheels I am out money whether I return them or not.
So the lesser evil to me was get them refinished correctly. File a claim with eBay to see if the seller would man up and help with the costs.
Little update.
Guy ended up paying to help with the refinishing. Somehow he thought I kept the wheels for 5 days before saying anything. The truth was they were stuck in snowmeggedon.
Sold the Downforce Wheels today. While cleaning my wheels wells I decided to paint the calipers. Should look good with the red caps and machined face wheels.
Hopefully will get them on tomorrow.
DirtyD
02-24-2014, 01:46 AM
So he wasn't going to help out because he thought you were holding out? But when he found out you had just for the wheels, his mind changed?
So he wasn't going to help out because he thought you were holding out? But when he found out you had just for the wheels, his mind changed?
His entire argument revolved around a time table. He thought I had the wheels 5 days longer than I did. He questioned why I was just now emailing him. Guess he figured I threw them around a parking lot.
JDMLOL
02-24-2014, 08:31 PM
His entire argument revolved around a time table. He thought I had the wheels 5 days longer than I did. He questioned why I was just now emailing him. Guess he figured I threw them around a parking lot.
Interesting, because if you really had the product for a week or two and then claimed there was a problem it would've seemed a little fishy.
Interesting, because if you really had the product for a week or two and then claimed there was a problem it would've seemed a little fishy.
It would be fishy to anyone. He looked at the shipping history.
JDMLOL
02-24-2014, 09:54 PM
It would be fishy to anyone. He looked at the shipping history.
One would think...
Good to hear you recooped some of your losses on the rework.
Craizie
02-24-2014, 10:49 PM
Must be nice.
Dark Pony
02-25-2014, 08:15 AM
PayPal loves to side with the buyer. I still have a set of 17x4 Racestars with tires on them sitting in my garage because some guy decided to screw me on a deal. Tires are fucked now and I'm stuck having to refund him $500 when I can't even sell them for that now that the tires are trashed.
One would think...
Good to hear you recooped some of your losses on the rework.
It was nice. I came down in my asking price for a refund. Trying to at least convey to him that I was being honest and not out for money. I got them on last night, and they came with the poopy red center caps. BARF
Must be nice.
??? I do not understand your post.
PayPal loves to side with the buyer. I still have a set of 17x4 Racestars with tires on them sitting in my garage because some guy decided to screw me on a deal. Tires are fucked now and I'm stuck having to refund him $500 when I can't even sell them for that now that the tires are trashed.
Paypal/eBay both side with the buyer. In some situations like mine its a good thing, but I have heard instances where it really hurts the seller.
DirtyD
02-25-2014, 10:29 AM
PayPal loves to side with the buyer. I still have a set of 17x4 Racestars with tires on them sitting in my garage because some guy decided to screw me on a deal. Tires are fucked now and I'm stuck having to refund him $500 when I can't even sell them for that now that the tires are trashed.
Are you talking about that dude from Facebook that blew shit way over the top about the M&H tires? Dude, thats blows...
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