Gun Advice (looking to buy a pistol)

[Dan12GT]

I know we have some fellow gun enthusiasts and a police officer here that know their stuff about guns so I thought I'd ask here.

I would like to add a pistol to the home arsenal mainly because of ease of use and size to make it easy to hide / lockup. I don't need a bunch of large guns so I figured a pistol would add a good dynamic.

Anywho, I am not looking for anything fancy at all. I don't know much about pistols but have shot a few here and there. I don't need a cannon either, just a cheap reliable gun. Preferably light so my wife can learn it too yet can get the job done.

Looking for suggestions since I know nothing about pistols. Maybe in the $100-150 dollar range?

Thanks!

[downtime!]

You won't find much worth owning in that price range. If it's solely for home defense, I like the Judge pretty well. Mine shoots .410 shells and .45LC rounds. I have it pattern loaded with bird shot, buckshot, slugs and a .45 round nose round. At some point, the attacker will either run away, or be stopped.

[Craizie]

As already mentioned, you won't find much in that price range. I'd go to a large retail store and finger bang every pistol you can and then look on local boards / gun shows for which ever you liked best. This is one of those things in life I wouldn't cheap out on.

[Shiftybusiness]

Yea like already said don't cheap out buy once cry once. 9mm is a good round for a beginner it's large enough to do damage and not to hard to handle. Go to Bass pro or Cabellas to put hands on some and when you find what you want go online and find it cheaper. The big box stores are to expensive.

[JDBishopArts]

Yeah you aren't going to find anything in the 100-150 dollar range. 300 to 500 is more like what range you're going to be in.

357 revolver. .38 special. 380 Auto.

357 is a good gun. You can use 357 or 380 and I think in 380 there is a snakeshot which is a shot shell. So you wont be throwing bullets into the other rooms. Mine has 4 snake rounds and 3 357 rounds if that doesn't do the job. I carry a Ruger 380. Mainly because of it's size. The trigger pull is a little tricky because it doesn't have a safety but with practice I can shoot it fine in the distance I'm going to need to.

The ruger 380 can be had for 280-350.

[JDBishopArts]

We can go shoot mine if you want sometime.

[BV600]

Look at the Springfield XD40 its in the 300-500 range, friend has one and I love it will be getting one sooner or later.

[03MachMe]

Yea like stated you will need to spend more than that for a reliable gun. I have Springfield XDm 40 and Xd 45. Just let me know if you want to go shoot

[SMERF]

You can't even get a good stolen gun for that price. $300 minimum and that's at a gun show or something. Quality you're looking $500 +

[Dan12GT]

Lol how's how little I know. Thanks for the info guys. I have a Cabelas literally within a mile of my house I may go put my hands on some to see how I like them.

[DirtyD]

Danny, I would suggest finding a place where you can rent a couple of pistols to shoot different ones. Winchester Gallery is a good option. I can't remember if Cabela's has lanes or not.

Let me know if you go sometime and I'll see if I'm free to join you.

[BlueBolt]

I have a ported Springfield XD 40 and I love it (it's a loud SOB though). Thinking about adding a glock to my collection too. Wife has a ruger 38 under her side of the bed.

Look to spend $300-$500 on a good handgun. The Springfield falls in the $350-$400 range usually.


I also agree with dirty about shooting a few. At the very least hold them and get a feel for them but it's better to run a couple of rounds through some different guns. I thought I wanted a Kimber ultra carry until I shot it. If I get a Kimber it won't be a shorter one like that.

[El_Tortuga]

Echo the cost comments. If cost is main concern, a pump shotgun is the cheapest and of the most effective home defense choices. a couple of other comments:
1) lighter and smaller is more portable for concealed carry, but big and heavy is much easier to shoot. I'm very comfy shooting my 40 cal Glock for a couple hundred rounds or so, but I'm ready to set the .380 mouse gun down after about 20 rounds (or less).
2) gun figment in YOUR hand is key. Handling a display gun is a start, but Shoot a few rental guns before you make your choice.

[Shiftybusiness]

Shoot Smart is real close to Cabellas in Ft. Worth they have guns to rent and it is a great place for indoor range.

[03MachMe]

Shoot Smart is real close to Cabellas in Ft. Worth they have guns to rent and it is a great place for indoor range.

This. I used to shoot there all the time before I moved

[Shiftybusiness]

This. I used to shoot there all the time before I moved

Maybe we could go to Shoot Smart and have some fun I would love to have a range day with a LEO?

[03MachMe]

Maybe we could go to Shoot Smart and have some fun I would love to have a range day with a LEO?

I live on the other side of the metroplex now but maybe during my 10 days off in December we can set something up

[Shiftybusiness]

I live on the other side of the metroplex now but maybe during my 10 days off in December we can set something up

That would be cool. We could find someplace in between it doesn't have to be Shoot Smart.

[JDBishopArts]

I shoot at Elm Fork

[Shiftybusiness]

I shoot at Elm Fork

I do to when I shoot rifle. For handguns I like the indoor you don't have to deal with cease fire and you can adjust the distance at will.

[DirtyD]

I like to shoot in my backyard when I go home. :gunner::biggun:

[JDBishopArts]

Danny, have you thought about getting a shotgun? I know it's not small but that's the ultimate home defense gun. When you're half asleep and not fully focused all you have to do it point it in the general direction and let er rip. Additionally, I'm sure if a would be robber heard you rack a shotgun they probably wouldn't keep coming. I bought my Mossberg 500a for $200. Holds 7 shells. I keep 5 bird/target shot as the first rounds and 2 slugs as a just in case.

[DirtyD]

Danny, have you thought about getting a shotgun? I know it's not small but that's the ultimate home defense gun. When you're half asleep and not fully focused all you have to do it point it in the general direction and let er rip. Additionally, I'm sure if a would be robber heard you rack a shotgun they probably wouldn't keep coming. I bought my Mossberg 500a for $200. Holds 7 shells. I keep 5 bird/target shot as the first rounds and 2 slugs as a just in case.

Cabelas and bass pro usually have some decent deals on sawed off defense shotguns as well.

[Dan12GT]

Danny, have you thought about getting a shotgun? I know it's not small but that's the ultimate home defense gun. When you're half asleep and not fully focused all you have to do it point it in the general direction and let er rip. Additionally, I'm sure if a would be robber heard you rack a shotgun they probably wouldn't keep coming. I bought my Mossberg 500a for $200. Holds 7 shells. I keep 5 bird/target shot as the first rounds and 2 slugs as a just in case.

Thought about it. Heard that is the cheaper route. I kinda wanted a decent hand gun too for recreational target practice too.

[JDBishopArts]

A shotgun makes target practice a little easier. lol

[DirtyD]

A shotgun makes target practice a little easier. lol

If you want to get a little complicated, just start shooting from the hip. Lol

[Bacadiesel]

Smokin hot chick works at shoot smart. That's why I go there

[fordplay]

I advise shoot smart also. You pay one rental fee and you can shoot the entire case. Think about this, you are getting this as self defense, is your life worth $200? My everyday carry and league shooting gun is a SIG 226.. I have other guns but it's the one I always go back to. It's been thru water, mud, sand , snow , rain , heat, cold, never failed and still drives tacks. As for round size.... I prefer .40 9 mm is cheap but some times it goes too fast. . P.s. Leo's are all poor shots!!!! Ha ha

[lolvtec]

This is really the only option: (object in picture shown actual size.. sry about that, posting from phone)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v131/Raysat/20130712_221812.jpg

Be wary of advice given by sales people at a lot of gunshops.. Even among the gun enthusiasts posting in this thread there is a bit of bad information.. for instance, spread out of a 18.5" 12ga shotgun barrel shooting buckshot down the longest hallway in your home is going to be about as large as your fist.

I sincerely suggest shooting with someone who knows their stuff before you make a purchase, knowing how to properly handle a gun and understanding recoil, etc will greatly impact the purchase you decide on.

[Crimson600+HP]

A Smith and Wesson SD9 VE is a good weapon. It is a glock 17/26 clone, which is heavily regarded as the standard among 9mm striker fired pistols. Glock even sued S&W on the design for copyright infrigment and won. Best part about it, they can be had brand new in the $350 range (which is easily $150 less than its Glock brother).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbWIEJhkD-k&feature=c4-overview&list=UUWJHDMgKWWvOsdyRF3HPVEw&noredirect=1

[blackweb]

I know we have some fellow gun enthusiasts and a police officer here that know their stuff about guns so I thought I'd ask here.

I would like to add a pistol to the home arsenal mainly because of ease of use and size to make it easy to hide / lockup. I don't need a bunch of large guns so I figured a pistol would add a good dynamic.

Anywho, I am not looking for anything fancy at all. I don't know much about pistols but have shot a few here and there. I don't need a cannon either, just a cheap reliable gun. Preferably light so my wife can learn it too yet can get the job done.

Looking for suggestions since I know nothing about pistols. Maybe in the $100-150 dollar range?

Thanks!

I own the Glock 19 Gen 4

http://us.glock.com/products/model/g19gen4

The most popular and highest rated self-defense weapon in America. Well balanced, easy to fire, reload and clean with excellent safety features. I got mine at Cabela's in allen. I use Hornaday Critical Duty 135 grain ammo

http://www.hornady.com/store/9MM-135-gr-FlexLock-Critical-DUTY/

You cant go wrong with a G19 for self-defense. I think you should revise the amount you want to spend upward considerably for safety and quality resons. However, if you want to spend very little, a .38 revolver would be in order.

[El_Tortuga]

Gun fitment explained:
http://www.corneredcat.com/article/choosing-firearms/trying-on-a-handgun/

[GunsUp]

Danny do you want something that in an emergency situation your wife could use as well?

[JDBishopArts]

Even among the gun enthusiasts posting in this thread there is a bit of bad information.. for instance, spread out of a 18.5" 12ga shotgun barrel shooting buckshot down the longest hallway in your home is going to be about as large as your fist.


Well a fist is better than a dime and you won't over penetrate.


Bottom line Danny is you need to find the gun that's right for you and your wife. As said before, the main thing you need to do is put a few guns in your hand and hers. Come up with what you feel is best for you and her. After that it's range time to get accurate with it. Run scenarios where you have to grab the gun quickly and fire one shot. See where you're at. Try it again and again. Just like anything it takes practice. To me, this is one of the most important things you can do for your family. Hopefully you'll never have to use it but if you do you need to make sure you are both ready.

Different people will have different views on what works best for them and they are probably not wrong, but it might not be what is best for you. Personally I believe a shotgun is the best home defense weapon. 2nd to a 22 magnum. I can get to it quickly and while you do still have to aim you're more likely to hit something with a shotgun than a pistol under less than optimal conditions. Also a significantly less chance of hitting or killing someone you don't want to.

I made a little personal pros and cons list for different weapons. I've fired all the weapons I list here. Most multiple times. I'm sure people can nit pick this and more power to them. This is my opinion on these weapons.

22 Magnum Auto Highly recommended as a home defense pistol.

Pros:
Small and light
Accurate
Easy to conceal and keep away from small children
Can hold up to 31 rounds. Big pro...lots of bullets means more of a chance to hit your target without having to reload and reset.
Little/No recoil. Makes it more accurate for less experienced shooters
Not likely to over penetrate
Quiet gun
Easy and fast reloads

Cons:
Smallest round
Not a lot of stopping power (however it seems to be once a target it hit they tend to stop coming)
PITA to clean

380 Auto SubCompact My choice for carry. My wife can put all rounds on target pretty quickly.

Pros:
Small and light
Small recoil but smaller/lighter gun means more kick
Easy to conceal and keep away from small children. It fits in my pocket
380 is good round with plenty of stopping power
Easy to operate however they can jam and can be a problem resetting for an inexperienced operate.
Easy and fast reload

Cons:
Small round
More of a chance of over penetration
Most sub compacts only hold 6 rounds
Less accurate than a large frame pistol
Mild recoil
Long trigger pull (no safety or "trigger safety") can cause you to pull too hard and go off target
Can jam
PITA to clean

9 auto Most popular pistol. Great overall gun.

Pros:
Large frame 9mm are very accurate
Powerful round
Easy to conceal and keep away from small children
Easy to operate
Quick trigger pull. Less likely to pull shot to one side.
Most can hold 17-18 but can hold more
Easy and fast reloads

Cons:
Small round
Very quick round. Can easily over penetrate.
Can jam. Inexperienced user can have difficultly resetting.
PITA to clean

40/45 Auto Two different guns but I think the pro/cons are the same.

Pros:
Large round
Very good stopping power. One and done.
Most hold 16-18 rounds for large frame. I think 9-10 for smaller frame.
Quick trigger
Accurate. More so in larger frames.
Easy and fast reloads

Cons:
Mild/Large Recoil
Can easily over penetrate
Smaller guns have smaller round count
Loud. Can be deafening in small room.
PITA to clean

44 Magnum Auto

Pros:
Very accurate
Very powerful stopping power. One and done.
8 Rounds but can hold more. Only need one.
Has some weight to it which generally helps with feel and accuracy.

Cons:
Weight. Can be too heavy for inexperienced user.
Larger gun. Harder to conceal.
Easily over penetrate
Mild/Large recoil
Very loud. In a small room it would be deafening.

.38 Revolver

Pros:
Small and light
Easy to conceal from small children
Easy to clean
Mild recoil
Easiest type of gun to use. Doesn't mean you're a good shot with it though.
Good round
Will never jam

Cons:
Long and usually hard trigger pull. Causes inaccuracy issues.
Most only carry 5-7 rounds.
Can over penetrate
Slow reload

357 Magnum Revolver

Pros:
Very accurate
Can hold either 357 or .38 round
Can hold "snake shot" round for more spread and less penetration
Easy to fire
Easy to clean
Can not jam

Cons:
Large gun. Harder to conceal.
7 Rounds
357 or .38 round can over penetrate
Slow reload
Very loud

Shotguns

20g Shotgun

Pros:
Great stopping power
With short barrel plenty of spread in short distance
Mild Recoil. I can one hand shoot with accuracy quickly.
Autos/pump can hold 5-7 rounds
Can use multiple types of rounds
Easy to fire
Easy to clean
Autos can throw shells very quickly
Not likely to over penetrate unless using large buck shot or slugs

Cons:
Bulky and nearly impossible to hide away
Loud
Very slow reload

12g Shotgun

Pros:
Great stopping power
With a short barrel plenty of spread in short distance
Holds 7 shells
Can use multiple types of rounds
Easy to fire
Easy to clean
Autos can throw shells very quickly
Not likely to over penetrate unless using large buck shot or slugs

Cons:
Large Recoil with pistol grip. Mild/large with stock
Bulky and nearly impossible to hide away
Very slow reload
Very loud

I hope this helps and isn't too redundant.

Let's go shoot some.

[DirtyD]

I'm game to shoot. If someone doesn't mind, I'd like to see some of the pistols y'all shoot.

[blackweb]

I'm game to shoot. If someone doesn't mind, I'd like to see some of the pistols y'all shoot.

The

http://www.bullettrapinc.com/

will let you test fire weapons.

[pohnjarker]

damn good list Josh

I agree with what's said about going and renting or getting with friends that have something for you to try and get a feel for.

i bought my first gun without touching it and i didnt like it so i didnt shoot it. since then, i only buy something i've shot and know that i like it.

good luck

[fordplay]

Don't listen to lolvtec , if he was for real that desert eagle would be a .50 Cal like mine. One thing to remember about a glock, it's Tupper ware .. and the grip to barrel angle is different from 99.9% of all other handguns, it's designed to pull from a holster and fire from the hip. If you hold it straight out you have to break your wrist at an unnatural angle, every other pistol has the same angle as if you make a gun with your thumb and first finger, that's the angle they take. Glocks have also been chastised for their weird balance and blocky feel, no external safety (don't even start with the trigger safety bs) and the inability to shoot lead rounds, reloads, and the tendency for the .40 Cal to explode.. but you know other than that it's great.. you will also notice lately police forces are starting to drop the Glocks also. Even the broke city of Detroit is getting rid of their Glocks. Handle and shoot everything you can before purchasing. Then shoot every weekend and take the concealed pistol class , even if you don't plan to carry.

[lolvtec]

Don't listen to lolvtec , if he was for real that desert eagle would be a .50 Cal like mine. One thing to remember about a glock, it's Tupper ware .. and the grip to barrel angle is different from 99.9% of all other handguns, it's designed to pull from a holster and fire from the hip. If you hold it straight out you have to break your wrist at an unnatural angle, every other pistol has the same angle as if you make a gun with your thumb and first finger, that's the angle they take. Glocks have also been chastised for their weird balance and blocky feel, no external safety (don't even start with the trigger safety bs) and the inability to shoot lead rounds, reloads, and the tendency for the .40 Cal to explode.. but you know other than that it's great.. you will also notice lately police forces are starting to drop the Glocks also. Even the broke city of Detroit is getting rid of their Glocks. Handle and shoot everything you can before purchasing. Then shoot every weekend and take the concealed pistol class , even if you don't plan to carry.

If your grip is correct glocks feel and work just fine :)

& if they are so awful why did one of the more conservative local police departments just approve their use? (Dallas) :p & I have two .50ae desert eagles that I everyday carry in matching shoulder holsters.. for her pleasure.

[03MachMe]

If your grip is correct glocks feel and work just fine :)

& if they are so awful why did one of the more conservative local police departments just approve their use? (Dallas) :p & I have two .50ae desert eagles that I everyday carry in matching shoulder holsters.. for her pleasure.

Agree and disagree with this. The grip thing is not true. I'm promise you my grip is just fine bit when I put the glock out I have to angle my wrist to have it line up correctly, where as with my Springfield as soon as I push put it's flat and ready to fire. Some people just have a different grip angle than others. That is why I carry a Springfield rather than a glock every day. I have no problems with flocks and they are as reliable as guns come so I agree with you there. Our department doesn't issue the duty weapon so we have the freedom to choose what we want but ill say more than half of patrol carries a glock. Swat is issued glock 9mm. They are very dependable and will always go bang when the trigger is pulled. And if you need an external safety then you need to get better at handling a weapon. I have no real safety on any of my guns, just the grip safety on the Springfields.

[fordplay]

Lolvtec I was just joking. I carried mine once.. once.. After 2 rounds you have to re adjust. Fun but not practical, as for the grip you have to train your self to an unnatural angle, it's just the fact. But it's a good hip fire while retreating gun. As for why do most police forces use it? Cost.. it's cheap, from an engineer stand point the glock is a sloppy mess, I mean a colt 45 is also, if you shake it and it's doesn't rattle something is wrong, but the glock was designed to be cheap, And light. I want better tolerances and no cost cutting when my life is on the line

[zsommer79]

Always been a fan of Sigs myself. Shot a lot of good guns and for some reason always find myself carrying a P226 and P220. Bachman Pawn sells the "Factory reconditioned" ones and if you know what you are looking for you can find some almost new guns sometimes a at fraction of the cost of the new.

[TurboZ]

I have a police issue Glock 19, gen 3 I think. I bought it used for about $300, its a 9mm. It had its entire police service with no cleaning done, previous owner ran 500 rounds through it in maybe 10 years, never cleaned it once. I bought it, ran 2500 rounds through it in 6 months, then finally cleaned it. The firing pin looked like it came out of a drum brake system it was covered so bad in gunpowder. I never once had a single misfire or failure to feed. Not one single problem. There are plenty of guns out there that will do the job just fine, but I carry my glock with me daily, and I would easily trust my life with one over any other gun out there. I've had different small caliber handguns, jam, ftf, etc. on me at the range, I've never had a glock jam or misfire. EVER. And it doesn't matter what kind of ammo you run through it, cheap or good shit, they will always fire, never jam, and never clog up. Just something to think about.

[El_Tortuga]

Lolvtec I was just joking. I carried mine once.. once.. After 2 rounds you have to re adjust. Fun but not practical, as for the grip you have to train your self to an unnatural angle, it's just the fact. But it's a good hip fire while retreating gun. As for why do most police forces use it? Cost.. it's cheap, from an engineer stand point the glock is a sloppy mess, I mean a colt 45 is also, if you shake it and it's doesn't rattle something is wrong, but the glock was designed to be cheap, And light. I want better tolerances and no cost cutting when my life is on the line

This engineer thinks Glocks are marvel. The simplest solution is likely the best one!!! Simple design and very tolerant of nasty conditions. One of the design features I love is how low they barrel is = less muzzle flip. I'm recoil sensitive to the point of opting for a compensated version of my gun.

Not exactly a classic beauty. No doubt, heck mine even has the pig nose. But I think its dead sexy:http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d109/El_Tortuga/Misc/MrG.jpg (http://s34.photobucket.com/user/El_Tortuga/media/Misc/MrG.jpg.html)

"Glocks are good, Glocks are great, Glocks are better than chocolate cake...":big_banana_Dance:

Seriously, grip and comfort matter more to me than than brand or features. As it works out, my 23C fits me perfectly and the angle feels perfect. After doing my initial research, I was interested in a Springfield Xd until I shot a buddy's. Heavy and uncomfortable to me. But that's why we have choices. Buy the gun that fits you and learn how to shoot it. Do this, and you likely won't go wrong with any of the main stream choices.

[pohnjarker]

i rented a glock and an HK before i bought my second handgun, which ended up being an HK, but the glock grip angle was just weird...i didnt like it. to each their own though which is why you should give it a go before buying. some like it just fine, some dont...no big deal.

[JDBishopArts]

One of my fav guns I shot was a Taurus 45 subcompact. It was my old carry. Was pretty accurate and not bad to shoot at all. Just too big for everyday carry and it didn't like reloads. My buddies gun same make and model had no problem with reloads.

[fordplay]

El tortuga. Look at the instructions you can't shoot lead thru the glock. Or +p rounds.. weird right? My sig p226 is a solid chunk of machined metal... that's a good design. Look at how bad the Glocks failed the FBI Frisbee test. Don't get me wrong I like Glocks when the other guy is carrying one!! And I own a glock, how else would I carry my lunch to work everyday? From the fridge to the microwave!! There is a reason our military, including any special forces branch does not use glocks.. look what's used. Honestly all the reasons glocks are junk on the side, you'll shoot best what fits your hand best. So shoot every hand gun in your price range and some above it. Ask for a holster. Try to carry it, most places will have no problem helping you

[El_Tortuga]

El tortuga. Look at the instructions you can't shoot lead thru the glock. Or +p rounds.. weird right? My sig p226 is a solid chunk of machined metal... that's a good design. Look at how bad the Glocks failed the FBI Frisbee test. Don't get me wrong I like Glocks when the other guy is carrying one!! And I own a glock, how else would I carry my lunch to work everyday? From the fridge to the microwave!! There is a reason our military, including any special forces branch does not use glocks.. look what's used. Honestly all the reasons glocks are junk on the side, you'll shoot best what fits your hand best. So shoot every hand gun in your price range and some above it. Ask for a holster. Try to carry it, most places will have no problem helping you

Can shoot unplated lead, but it will foul so you actually have to clean the gun once in a while.

23C = .40 S&W which is plenty hot enough for me. Who shoots .40 +P?

Frisbee test, never heard of it but was curious so I looked it up. 1991 DEA (not FBI) ABUSE test = 6 throws of 15ft to height of 4ft. Longer slide rails since 1992 to address. So maybe you shouldn't buy a pre 92 if you are planning on throwing it around a lot.

Yeah, they make in 10 mm too. Weird. ;) I am a little disappointed, you didn't even bring up the typical Kabloom theory of the ANTI Glock crowd.


If you are counting on the other guy's Glock to malfunction, I'm going to recommend a large supply of quickclot and good life insurance. ;) Proud member of the tupperware army!!!

Sigs a great piece too, but much more expensive solid metal = heavy. At least we agree on fitment. :)

[Crimson600+HP]

Our military uses Beretta 92's because we won't buy new weapons. That's a fact, since I used one in Afghanistan and stateside. Spec Ops primary uses full sized solid metal due to reliablity of metal. Polymer pistols of any brand aren't used.

Find a gun nut buddy who has a bunch or rent some from a range/store, find what you like and buy it. The best gun to have is the one you are willing to carry and shoot.

[03MachMe]

Wow so much glock hate lol. Fordplay has obviously never used or owned a glock just going along with the other sig nut swinger crowd. More law enforcement carries glock than any other gun put there. PERIOD. they do it because they are one of the most reliable guns on the market. Add in the lighter weight (every oz counts when you have a ton of gear on your belt for 10+ hours), high round capacity, and price it is a no brainer. The only thing I will agree with him on is the grip angle, but that is personal preference not something wrong with the gun. I don't like sig at all but I'm not stupid enough to make false statements about them to try and sway the op from buying one lol

[lolvtec]

Lolvtec I was just joking. I carried mine once.. once.. After 2 rounds you have to re adjust. Fun but not practical, as for the grip you have to train your self to an unnatural angle, it's just the fact. But it's a good hip fire while retreating gun. As for why do most police forces use it? Cost.. it's cheap, from an engineer stand point the glock is a sloppy mess, I mean a colt 45 is also, if you shake it and it's doesn't rattle something is wrong, but the glock was designed to be cheap, And light. I want better tolerances and no cost cutting when my life is on the line

If you have to adjust your grip after every two shots you are not in a position to give gun advice to anyone, period.

I do gunsmithing, which means I am constantly breaking down and rebuilding firearms to refinish, repair, upgrade, modify, tune up, etc. Glocks are the easiest handguns to completely detail strip and reassemble, nothing else out there even comes close. With machines simplicity equals reliability, out of all the police trade in Glocks I've handled (easily the most abused guns) not a single one has failed a function check.

03machme.. regarding the grip angle, I acknowledge that it is different but once you adapt your grip a certain way the glock feels natural and all other handguns become more controllable as well.

For the record I don't consider myself a tier 1 tacticool operative, but I've shot a lot of guns andshoot quite a bit more than most people. I'm more than willing to go with any of you to the range.

[lolvtec]

Our military uses Beretta 92's because we won't buy new weapons. That's a fact, since I used one in Afghanistan and stateside. Spec Ops primary uses full sized solid metal due to reliablity of metal. Polymer pistols of any brand aren't used.

Find a gun nut buddy who has a bunch or rent some from a range/store, find what you like and buy it. The best gun to have is the one you are willing to carry and shoot.

I will point out that our military does use a factory threaded H&K Usp occasionally for some spooky operations.. the Beretta M9 is a fantastic weapon with an extremely long service life.. but it is also massive and heavy. Not something you'd want to conceal. The ineffectiveness of fmj 9mm (what the military uses) is an entirely separate argument.

[lolvtec]

Can shoot unplated lead, but it will foul so you actually have to clean the gun once in a while.

23C = .40 S&W which is plenty hot enough for me. Who shoots .40 +P?

Frisbee test, never heard of it but was curious so I looked it up. 1991 DEA (not FBI) ABUSE test = 6 throws of 15ft to height of 4ft. Longer slide rails since 1992 to address. So maybe you shouldn't buy a pre 92 if you are planning on throwing it around a lot.

Yeah, they make in 10 mm too. Weird. ;) I am a little disappointed, you didn't even bring up the typical Kabloom theory of the ANTI Glock crowd.


If you are counting on the other guy's Glock to malfunction, I'm going to recommend a large supply of quickclot and good life insurance. ;) Proud member of the tupperware army!!!

Sigs a great piece too, but much more expensive solid metal = heavy. At least we agree on fitment. :)

Literally quoted this just so I could Facebook +1 Double like the post.

[fordplay]

Of course we agree on fitment, that's why they make so many different sizes and kinds, and I don't count on a glock to malfunction, they are like the AK of the pistol world, it will always fire, and sometimes it will even hit what you point it at, just like an AK. As for having to readjust my grip, I'll bet by the third shot rapid fired from a .50 Cal desert eagle the casing has already popped you in the head. I shoot a lot, I owned a lot, one was a glock, I tried using it for competition and it's just slower to bring up on target than any other gun I've used, you shouldn't have to get used to a gun, like all the glock users suggest, it should fit you from the moment you pick it up, that's what spawned the original 1911 design ergonomics, I didn't start winning my league and competitive shooting till I gave up the glock, first improvement was the Kimber than the ed brown, then the p229 then finally the p226, which is weird because the ed brown and Kimber have way more done to then than my stock sig, but that's why I keep saying to hold and shoot everything, and don't buy because what others have that fit them.

[lolvtec]

Fordplay.. every post you make in this thread seems to contradict the last. Also what does your claim of needing to readjust your grip after every two shots from a glock have to do with rapid firing a desert eagle? Calling a glock the ak of the pistol world is the sort of asinine crap I expect to hear in a gun store, but whatever. Have some videos for us of you shooting some competitions? I'd be interested to see them.

[fordplay]

They do? I'm really bad with punctuation, I need to work on that, when I talked about having to readjust my grip I was referring to rapid firing the .50. But I don't think the basic theme of any of my posts has changed, had a glock, purchased it on the hype, didn't like it, due the the grip angle and the approach they use for reliability, which happens to be the same approach the Russians used when they created the AK from stolen german rifles in world war 2, same principles, light, cheap, loose. As for video of me? No I don't have any. I have pictures of me shooting the desert eagle, the m4, a Thompson, the SAW, a bunch of carbines. But I still have some gift cards and stuff for shoot smart so we can go anytime you guys want to get together, I don't shoot enough any more, but I need advance warning do to the wife and kids, shoot smart used to do tactical Tuesdays, bring your ar-15 and pistol and advance thru the range hitting targets and reloading on the move, I'll see if they still do that and if we can get a group together if you guys want??

[lolvtec]

Ok, makes a lot more sense with that comment directed to the deagle. Read it as reffering to the glock. Everyone has to pick what works for them, I agree with you there.. but there is a reason 1911's have a reputation for being moody, have super small clearances (no wobble) on a gun will do that. $20 says your sigs have as much slide wobble as my glock.. they were developed for reliability also (I've owned more than a few sigs as well)

I normally shoot at tdsa (texas defensive shooting academy, tdsa.org) and yes I need to get out and shoot more too.

[csamsh]

Interesting side note about why the US military sticks with the M9....

My dad (director of military contracting for Winchester) says that none of the branches besides the Air Force care about pistols at all. There is a meeting every year when everybody gets together and talks about standard issue rifles, pistols, shotguns, and other small arms (sub .50BMG) and they decide what to look into as far as new stuff goes. Nobody ever cares much about the pistol. I believe that there is an RFI out right now (maybe Army and Air Force???) for a "modular handgun system" or some such, with a potential bid request to follow....but I'd be surprised if anything happens.

Anybody remember the XM8???

[fordplay]

Yeah, I need to remember to proof read all my stuff, and I screw up my punctuation, it's because 90% of all my posts are from my phone, yeah I have not shot competition in texas, I moved down here with my family about 7 years ago and gave up the dreams of soldier of fortune/hired gun lifestyle and work 55 to 80 hours a week. But yeah the 1911, first thing you have to do is fire 200 rounds thru it then work the ramp, then find what type of defense round will feed in your 1911, because each one is different!! Ha ha.

Yeah I remember the xm8, geez, yeah the early calvary carried a pistol only to use in the event they were separated from their rifle so they could keep people ducking till they got back to their rifle, I think most people still feel that way in the military, unlike the way it happens in counterstrike, COD, and battlefield, rarely do you switch to pistol then to knife to kill the guy bunny hopping around in front of you!! Ha ha. But for us out here where I can't pack an M4, mp5, or something, pistols are our first line of defense.