Jay Leno drives the 2014 Z28

[BLK2012GT]

He's the first person outside of GM to drive. Still looks slow.......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gc-T--DI0qQ&feature=player_embedded#at=64

[rriddle3]

Only 100 lbs less than the SS, no standard a/c, no power seat, no auto transmission, 'at least' 500 HP...price north of $56,000.
Not for me.

[faztcobra]

Only 100 lbs less than the SS, no standard a/c, no power seat, no auto transmission, 'at least' 500 HP...price north of $56,000.
Not for me.For that, you'd be in GT500 territory, with much better options. I'd take the Boss over that.

[re-rx7]

Thats extremely pricey. Shit anything handles with 305's all the way around.

[blownaltered]

60k and no a/c, I'm good. That is one over prices car.

[re-rx7]

60k and no a/c, I'm good. That is one over prices car.

Granted limited run cars are a bitch to make but still.

[Dominic Toretto]

Thats extremely pricey. Shit anything handles with 305's all the way around.

Early model Vipers have 335s in the back and 275s in the front. Just sayin.

-Alex

[re-rx7]

And your point being? I said 305's.

[Dominic Toretto]

For that, you'd be in GT500 territory, with much better options. I'd take the Boss over that.

This car is obviously not aimed at the GT500. I'd easily take this over a Boss. Let's see:

56 more horsepower Advantage = Z/28

Almost 100 more ft/lbs of torque Advantage = Z/28

Undoubtedly a far sooner power delivery from the LS7 Advantage = Z/28

Power to weight for Boss is 444/3580= 0.124hp/lb, Z/28 is 500/3760 = 0.133 Advantage = Z/28

255/285s on the Boss means 1080 total contact patch, Z/28 is 1220 = Advantage Z/28

Torque to weight for Boss is 380/3580=0.106tq/lb, 470/3760= 0.125 = Advantage Z/28

Oh and just adding the Camaro comes standard with carbon ceramic brakes. Those will outperform the brakes on a GT500 all day and night.

Oh and who runs the AC while racing? Man I understand this is a Mustang site but damn the delusion is strong in this thread.

-Alex

[Dominic Toretto]

And your point being? I said 305's.

Bigger tires doesn't automatically mean a car will handle better. Thought that point was obvious.

The C7 has 275s in the back and handles better than the Grandsport with 325s.

A Honda S2000 will out handle most of the cars on this forum around a track and has very small tires.

-Alex

[blownaltered]

This car is obviously not aimed at the GT500. I'd easily take this over a Boss. Let's see:

56 more horsepower Advantage = Z/28

Almost 100 more ft/lbs of torque Advantage = Z/28

Undoubtedly a far sooner power delivery from the LS7 Advantage = Z/28

Power to weight for Boss is 444/3580= 0.124hp/lb, Z/28 is 500/3760 = 0.133 Advantage = Z/28

255/285s on the Boss means 1080 total contact patch, Z/28 is 1220 = Advantage Z/28

Torque to weight for Boss is 380/3580=0.106tq/lb, 470/3760= 0.125 = Advantage Z/28

Oh and just adding the Camaro comes standard with carbon ceramic brakes. Those will outperform the brakes on a GT500 all day and night.

Oh and who runs the AC while racing? Man I understand this is a Mustang site but damn the delusion is strong in this thread.

-Alex
I'm trying to figure out why you switched cars in the middle of your comparison. You started with the gt500 then went to the Boss, then back to the gt500. If your trying to compare two cars you might want to use the stats from those cars and not add in a different one half way through. Your results are not accurate when you do that.

[re-rx7]

Bigger tires doesn't automatically mean a car will handle better. Thought that point was obvious.

The C7 has 275s in the back and handles better than the Grandsport with 325s.

A Honda S2000 will out handle most of the cars on this forum around a track and has very small tires.

-Alex
S2k small tires? No shit? !! Wait. Doesn't it weigh 500lbs less? Bigger tires offer more contact patch so most likely any car will handle better with wider tires.

[Dominic Toretto]

I'm trying to figure out why you switched cars in the middle of your comparison. You started with the gt500 then went to the Boss, then back to the gt500. If your trying to compare two cars you might want to use the stats from those cars and not add in a different one half way through. Your results are not accurate when you do that.

Huh? Uh, all of the stats except the very last one were in comparison to the Boss 302. Quick review of my own post:



This car is obviously not aimed at the GT500. I'd easily take this over a Boss. Let's see: (As stated, not in comparison to a GT500 lol)

56 more horsepower Advantage = Z/28(Uh the Z/28 has far less power than a GT500, so NOT in comparison to a GT500 lol)

Almost 100 more ft/lbs of torque Advantage = Z/28(Uh the Z/28 doesn't have more torque than a GT500, so not comparing to the GT500 lol)

Undoubtedly a far sooner power delivery from the LS7 Advantage = Z/28(Still comparing the Z/28 to the Boss 302 since this is obviously not in comparison to the GT500 lol)

Power to weight for Boss is 444/3580= 0.124hp/lb, Z/28 is 500/3760 = 0.133 Advantage = Z/28(Again, this isn't true to a GT500 since that car weighs more than 3580lbs lol)

255/285s on the Boss means 1080 total contact patch, Z/28 is 1220 = Advantage Z/28(As stated in the sentence... Boss, not GT500)

Torque to weight for Boss is 380/3580=0.106tq/lb, 470/3760= 0.125 = Advantage Z/28(Not being compared to the GT500 since it makes far more than 380ft lbs of torque... oh and I said Boss in the sentence)

Oh and just adding the Camaro comes standard with carbon ceramic brakes. Those will outperform the brakes on a GT500 all day and night.(Just through that in there to point out that this car comes standard with better brakes than Ford's best Mustang so obviously the brakes would humiliate those on the "medium" level car)

Oh and who runs the AC while racing? Man I understand this is a Mustang site but damn the delusion is strong in this thread.

-Alex

S2k small tires? No shit? !! Wait. Doesn't it weigh 500lbs less? Bigger tires offer more contact patch so most likely any car will handle better with wider tires.

Wow, so when you comparison shop for tires, you make your decisions solely by the width for full performance aspects? You don't take into account the tires intended purpose, sidewall, manufacturer, tread design or anything else. How the fuck do you think a Corvette with smaller tires handles BETTER than a Corvette with larger tires? I guess it's safe to assume then that you would prefer to have 255 Bridgestone Blizzaks over a 225 Toyo Proxes R888 for a roadcourse lol. The Blizzaks are wider than the R888s, so they must be better for autocross and drag right LOL?

-Alex

[re-rx7]

Huh? Uh, all of the stats except the very last one were in comparison to the Boss 302. Quick review of my own post:



This car is obviously not aimed at the GT500. I'd easily take this over a Boss. Let's see: (As stated, not in comparison to a GT500 lol)

56 more horsepower Advantage = Z/28(Uh the Z/28 has far less power than a GT500, so NOT in comparison to a GT500 lol)

Almost 100 more ft/lbs of torque Advantage = Z/28(Uh the Z/28 doesn't have more torque than a GT500, so not comparing to the GT500 lol)

Undoubtedly a far sooner power delivery from the LS7 Advantage = Z/28(Still comparing the Z/28 to the Boss 302 since this is obviously not in comparison to the GT500 lol)

Power to weight for Boss is 444/3580= 0.124hp/lb, Z/28 is 500/3760 = 0.133 Advantage = Z/28(Again, this isn't true to a GT500 since that car weighs more than 3580lbs lol)

255/285s on the Boss means 1080 total contact patch, Z/28 is 1220 = Advantage Z/28(As stated in the sentence... Boss, not GT500)

Torque to weight for Boss is 380/3580=0.106tq/lb, 470/3760= 0.125 = Advantage Z/28(Not being compared to the GT500 since it makes far more than 380ft lbs of torque... oh and I said Boss in the sentence)

Oh and just adding the Camaro comes standard with carbon ceramic brakes. Those will outperform the brakes on a GT500 all day and night.(Just through that in there to point out that this car comes standard with better brakes than Ford's best Mustang so obviously the brakes would humiliate those on the "medium" level car)

Oh and who runs the AC while racing? Man I understand this is a Mustang site but damn the delusion is strong in this thread.

-Alex



Wow, so when you comparison shop for tires, you make your decisions solely by the width for full performance aspects? You don't take into account the tires intended purpose, sidewall, manufacturer, tread design or anything else. How the fuck do you think a Corvette with smaller tires handles BETTER than a Corvette with larger tires? I guess it's safe to assume then that you would prefer to have 255 Bridgestone Blizzaks over a 225 Toyo Proxes R888 for a roadcourse lol. The Blizzaks are wider than the R888s, so they must be better for autocross and drag right LOL?

-Alex
Holy shit. You think you know something about suspensions and driving?
Blizzaks and and r888's huh? Do you even know what compound those tires use? Did you even take into account the weight? Aero? Every car acts different to suspension. I say that the z28 needs large tires for weight. The weight is the reason for the large tires. A lot of weight.

[Dominic Toretto]

Holy shit. You think you know something about suspensions and driving?
Blizzaks and and r888's huh? Do you even know what compound those tires use? Did you even take into account the weight? Aero? Every car acts different to suspension. I say that the z28 needs large tires for weight. The weight is the reason for the large tires. A lot of weight.

...:facepalm: okay dude.

-Alex

[re-rx7]

Well you ever been to DKC? We could find out there.

[Zeek]

For 60k you could buy a Boss and outfit it so much better than buying that crappy Camaro. Just sayin. + you would have A/C

[Dominic Toretto]

Well you ever been to DKC? We could find out there.

Not sure what that acronym is for but, I'm really not going to draw this e-fight out anymore. I was simply responding to you saying "anything performs better with 305s all around." All I said was there's more to tire performance than simply the width of the tire as found out on other platforms.

-Alex

[re-rx7]

Dallas karting.

[Stangmaster281]

This car is obviously not aimed at the GT500. I'd easily take this over a Boss. Let's see:

56 more horsepower Advantage = Z/28

Almost 100 more ft/lbs of torque Advantage = Z/28

Undoubtedly a far sooner power delivery from the LS7 Advantage = Z/28

Power to weight for Boss is 444/3580= 0.124hp/lb, Z/28 is 500/3760 = 0.133 Advantage = Z/28

255/285s on the Boss means 1080 total contact patch, Z/28 is 1220 = Advantage Z/28

Torque to weight for Boss is 380/3580=0.106tq/lb, 470/3760= 0.125 = Advantage Z/28

Oh and just adding the Camaro comes standard with carbon ceramic brakes. Those will outperform the brakes on a GT500 all day and night.

Oh and who runs the AC while racing? Man I understand this is a Mustang site but damn the delusion is strong in this thread.

-Alex

Some pretty close stats for a car that's been discontinued compared to a car that is not even out in the market yet. For the amount of money I pay for a z/28 I could get a tune, intake, and better brakes on the boss and put that z/28 to shame. And not to mention more than enough money left over for a supercharger. Or I could buy a vette and still have a better car than the z/28. It's performance does not justify how much that sucker costs. Delusional no, common sense, yes. Besides what do you care about carbon ceramic brakes, I thought you "lived your life a 1/4 mile at a time" Mr. Toretto? Lol

[Dominic Toretto]

For 6k you could buy a hatch Civic and outfit it so much better than buying a $30k Mustang. Just sayin. + you would have $$$

See how well throwing the lame "I can buy this for cheaper and mod it to be faster" card can work against the car you are defending?

I've found it best not to lean on things that have nothing to do with lap times, or actual performance when comparing cars. It's so ghey when people are like, "yeah sure a Corvette is faster bu bu but, GM sucks" or "So what if a Porsche GT2 RS is faster than my C4 Corvette, Porsche guys are snobs."

If a car is faster, it's faster. Just sayin.

-Alex

[Dominic Toretto]

Some pretty close stats for a car that's been discontinued compared to a car that is not even out in the market yet. For the amount of money I pay for a z/28 I could get a tune, intake, and better brakes on the boss and put that z/28 to shame. And not to mention more than enough money left over for a supercharger. Or I could buy a vette and still have a better car than the z/28. It's performance does not justify how much that sucker costs. Delusional no, common sense, yes. Besides what do you care about carbon ceramic brakes, I thought you "lived your life a 1/4 mile at a time" Mr. Toretto? Lol

And I could buy a salvaged 240Z for $3k, invest $15 and humiliate every Mustang on this forum.

If this is going to be the consensus argument, then everyone on here is seriously wasting money on $30k Mustangs. I think everyone should go out and buy some Pontiac Fieros with LS1 swaps and call it a day.

-Alex

[Dominic Toretto]

Dallas karting.

Just did a google search, looks like fun!

-Alex

[Stangmaster281]

And I could buy a salvaged 240Z for $3k, invest $15 and humiliate every Mustang on this forum.

If this is going to be the consensus argument, then everyone on here is seriously wasting money on $30k Mustangs. I think everyone should go out and buy some Pontiac Fieros with LS1 swaps and call it a day.

-Alex

I wouldn't say every mustang here, and these days it's all about more bang for your buck. I'm just saying it should be faster for how much their charging for this thing.

[Dominic Toretto]

I wouldn't say every mustang here, and these days it's all about more bang for your buck. I'm just saying it should be faster for how much their charging for this thing.

That's your opinion that it should be faster. A car's price doesn't dictate how fast it should be. Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini etc, have been proving this for literally decades. Ever wonder why Viper and Corvette sales can lag while they will always dominate the price/performance value vs a Porsche Carrera 4s being far more expensive and slower yet never having to worry about sales? You should really consider that. This should help you understand. If you were truelly looking for the cheapest way to go fast short of buying a bike, you would get a POS 240SX for about 2 large, put a cammed LS1 in it for junkyard prices of oh IDK, $2,000.00, with the right suspension setup and tires, be more competitive than cars costing $80k. But no matter how fast you can modify one car, it will never substitute for driving another car. Ever. Pulling up to the Four Seasons in a cammed 302 Mustang will not have the same impact as pulling up in a slower Bentley GT which cost more than double the price would you agree?

-Alex

[re-rx7]

A 240? Why not just buy an old fox? When it's performance oriented a cars price does dictate a lot of things. Your comparing price to every car but we are talkin performance cars.

[Dominic Toretto]

A 240? Why not just buy an old fox? When it's performance oriented a cars price does dictate a lot of things. Your comparing price to every car but we are talkin performance cars.

What does price dictate to you?

-Alex

[re-rx7]

Price dictates everything. Quality, engineering, materials.

[Dominic Toretto]

Price dictates everything. Quality, engineering, materials.

In what quantifiable way? How are you measuring it?

-Alex

[re-rx7]

I measure it through quality, materials, engineering. You may measure it through just performance I measure it differently.

[re-rx7]

A performance cars price dictates how fast and nice it should be. The Vette vs a Ferrari. Vette may be just as quick but that's where the similarities end.

[Rebelracer568]

Haha wow this thread is humorous. 305's all around on camaro. Heck yea that car will handle especially with a 200 threadwear tire.
Comparing braking you do know your comparing 8 piston calipers to the 6 on the gt500 right? Or the 4 piston on the boss right.
Anyways 60k for a car that barely out performs a boss and you loose comfort ill pass. Ill stick to a car that has never been discontinued.
I like your 240sx comment kinda cute. I got a all stock fox race car that id challenge you in on road course. My fox worth 500 bucks as it sits. Just saying

[Dominic Toretto]

You may measure it through just performance I measure it differently.

Sweet Jesus :facepalm:... Okay bye bye.

-Alex

[Dominic Toretto]

Comparing braking you do know your comparing 8 piston calipers to the 6 on the gt500 right? Or the 4 piston on the boss right.

Thanks. So not only are they carbon ceramic, they have more pistons in the calipers. Sounds good man.

Anyways 60k for a car that barely out performs a boss and you loose comfort ill pass.

You do realize that "barely outperforming" still means winning right lol?

Ill stick to a car that has never been discontinued.

And this has what to do with the cars in comparison? Anything to do with performing right now? Oh, nothing at all, thanks bro :)

I like your 240sx comment kinda cute. I got a all stock fox race car that id challenge you in on road course. My fox worth 500 bucks as it sits. Just saying

The point was that you can buy any number of cars that are cheap and make them fast. Why would you want to challenge me on a race course? Is this debate between two cars none of us have getting that personal to you?

-Alex

[re-rx7]

Dominic is a jackass. Rebel builds race cars you knw?

[re-rx7]

Sweet Jesus :facepalm:... Okay bye bye.

-Alex

I figure if you wanna make dumbass comments I would to. What experience do you have driving? Your knowledge is very little from what I can tell.

[blownaltered]

Why are you comparing a car that cost 30k to a car that cost 60k. These cars weren't even built to compete with each other.

[Dominic Toretto]

Dominic is a jackass. Rebel builds race cars you knw?

Name calling huh? Have a good day. You're now added to my ignore list :)

-Alex

[Dominic Toretto]

Why are you comparing a car that cost 30k to a car that cost 60k.

Same reason people compare $300k to $500k exotics to Corvettes and Vipers. Price difference doesn't mean the cars can't competitive to one another.

These cars weren't even built to compete with each other.

So a track oriented Camaro isn't built to compete with a track oriented Mustang?

-Alex

[re-rx7]

Name calling huh? Have a good day. You're now added to my ignore list :)

-Alex

Oh no!!! Not that!!

[blownaltered]

Same reason people compare $300k to $500k exotics to Corvettes and Vipers. Price difference doesn't mean the cars can't competitive to one another.



So a track oriented Camaro isn't built to compete with a track oriented Mustang?

-Alex

And people call bullshit on that as well. You can't compare a Ferrari to a vette. Crap plastic interior to hand made and installed. Come on its apples and oranges. Lets be honest the z28 was meant to compete with the gt500 not the boss. That's why the put the big motor in it and the prices are very close.

[Dominic Toretto]

And people call bullshit on that as well. You can't compare a Ferrari to a vette. Crap plastic interior to hand made and installed. Come on its apples and oranges.

I agree and disagree. A ZR1 and a 458 are entirely comparable on a track. Similar track times, etc. Now as far as buyers cross-shopping the cars, yes I do agree with you, off-track performance is negligible as everything else about the cars are extremely different.

Lets be honest the z28 was meant to compete with the gt500 not the boss. That's why the put the big motor in it and the prices are very close.

You very well could be correct. Truth of the matter is that Chevy has not made any statements as to what products this car would be targeting. So we could both be right or wrong. However, since there is an SS and a ZL1, I see the Z/28 fitting right in the middle of those to performance wise. Both manufacturers have an base V8(SS and 5.0GT) and a super GT model(ZL1 and GT500). The Mustang has a track only variant with the Boss 302(whether it's out of production or not for one year, it is still a relevant performance car built after 2012) so what ring would you put Chevy's contender in? The ring with the 5.0GT or in the same ring with a fighter they already have for the GT500?

-Alex

[blownaltered]

I agree and disagree. A ZR1 and a 458 are entirely comparable on a track. Similar track times, etc. Now as far as buyers cross-shopping the cars, yes I do agree with you, off-track performance is negligible as everything else about the cars are extremely different.



You very well could be correct. Truth of the matter is that Chevy has not made any statements as to what products this car would be targeting. So we could both be right or wrong. However, since there is an SS and a ZL1, I see the Z/28 fitting right in the middle of those to performance wise. Both manufacturers have an base V8(SS and 5.0GT) and a super GT model(ZL1 and GT500). The Mustang has a track only variant with the Boss 302(whether it's out of production or not for one year, it is still a relevant performance car built after 2012) so what ring would you put Chevy's contender in? The ring with the 5.0GT or in the same ring with a fighter they already have for the GT500?

-Alex

Honestly I would put the SS about the ZL1. Its got the LS7, the better brakes, etc. In my opinion the ZL1 wasn't a huge success so they went back to the drawing board and they did what they should have done in the first place. If mustang came back out with the cobra R then I think we would have a better comparison, but I don't see that happening.

[Dominic Toretto]

Honestly I would put the SS about the ZL1.

Going to make an educated guess and assume you meant Z/28 instead of SS in the above statement.

Its got the LS7, the better brakes, etc. In my opinion the ZL1 wasn't a huge success so they went back to the drawing board and they did what they should have done in the first place. If mustang came back out with the cobra R then I think we would have a better comparison, but I don't see that happening.

This is a very respectable post. I could talk cars with you anytime. You don't preach your opinion as fact, you give your opinion, as do I.

The LS7 is nice and all but the engine in the ZL1 is more powerful. And from a modification standpoint, better, having better internals and built for boost from the factory. People have boosted the LS7 but with the inherent exhaust valve problems and thin cylinder wall spacing, I wouldn't. I just watched a video of Randy Pobst comparing the ZL1 and GT500 and they ranked the ZL1 the winner even though it was a slower car. The reason they picked it above all else, was that it was a consistent car. The GT500 was faster only once around the track they were on until the brakes started fading. But that's getting off topic. My point is that, it seems, in my opinion that the ZL1 was/is fine as it is and didn't seem to need a replacement. But we don't know yet as the full Camaro line-up isn't available yet. So I guess we will see.

-Alex

[Dominic Toretto]

Why are you comparing a car that cost 30k to a car that cost 60k.

Oh, and I wasn't comparing the Z/28 to a $30k Mustang. I am comparing it to a Boss 302. They stickered for over $40k.

http://www.edmunds.com/ford/mustang/2013/?sub=boss-302

-Alex