What should I do? K&N CAI vs. Stock Box & Others

[DirtyD]

First, I don't want this to turn into the classic debate thread about whether or not a CAI is worth it. Please don't post smart responses about it if that's all you are going to contribute.

Some backstory:
I purchased a K&N 63 series intake back in January. I had a K&N intake on my old F150 that seemed to be a decent pickup over the stock intake on the V6 it had. I figured that since K&N tends to do their homework, this CAI should be a decent upgrade over the stock box (yes I konw the stock box is a great design too).

With that being said, I installed the intake and have been enjoying it. I picked up a tune from the guys over at JPC Racing while using this intake, and the tune definitely helped. However I was a little niave about the intake until the other day. I noticed that at the area around the MAF necks down from the rest of the tube diameter as shown in the picture below. This really disappointed me, as I now understood why this was a "tune free" CAI.

http://www.knfilters.com/images/l/63-2578.jpg

Last night I Oxford14Stang (Jay/Jalal), who basically has the same mods (2013, 3.55s, Magnaflow Competition ABs, Steeda 101mm CAI, Bama tune, 235/50/18 stock wheels) as my car (2013, 3.55s, K&N CAI, GT500 ABs, JPC tune, 255/40/19 & 275/40/19 Brembos). He took almost every race by about 1/2-3/4 of a car over me, and was shift a little sooner than I was.

I have complete confidence in my JPC tune over the Bama tune, so it came down to the intake basically. I have the feeling that the fact this is a "tune free" CAI is really hurting the potential of the car, even though it has been tuned for this intake. I can now see why not many people are running it.

So...with all of that now said, I want to ask opinions, from my fellow '11-'14 owners, as well as any of the tuning gurus here, what your opinions are on where to proceed from here.

I have contemplated going back to the stock box, either temporarily, or permanently (until I go PD blower in the future). I am also thinking of getting a better, "tune required" CAI such as Steeda, JLT, etc. I know those CAIs perform. However, I have reserves about the open air filters in these cars:

1) We know about this Texas summer heat...
2) combine that with an open element filter under the closed hood of a engine running around 180°-200° WITHOUT the aid of the ambient air temp of 100°+, IATs are a nightmare in slow moving traffic.
3) I trimmed my hood carpet around the vents, and don't want to worry about problems with water leaking onto the filter through the hood vents.

I wouldn't mind getting an open element CAI as long as I could gaurantee the filter is completely, or almost completely, sealed from the heat of the engine bay, still utilizes the ram air inlet from the grill, and I can find a way to prevent possible water damage...

What do you guys think I should do as far as where to go from here?

[Grandpa]

I think the engineer in you knows the answer to this question but the car guy in you is still wrestling with the fact you bought something that didn't work.

To me, it's pretty straight forward. Any performance part that is "no tune" required isn't going to be worth the money because obviously it doesn't change from near factory settings/specs. Those no tune required CAI's are more for asthetics rather than performance.

Personally, I've chosen to stay with the stock box until I go boosted since the kit will come with a CAI. No sense in spending the money two or three times.

I wish it were cooler so we could race to see if that CAI helped you at all versus my stock box.

[re-rx7]

Don't count out the bama tunestjey aren't horrible. As for me I have the jlt intake and compared to the K&N it's huge. I wish I could get the jlt with the box like the K&N though.

[JDBishopArts]

I personally think you're over-thinking it. That being said, the ideal CAI has no changes in diameter from filter to TB. But that could make no difference whatsoever if K&N has done some R&D and their design helps vortices the air so it runs smoother into the engine. Either way I would put money that the differences are negligible. As you could see with him winning by half a car. That's almost no difference. Half a car could have been anything. Gears, the difference in the 19"s and 18"s, IAT's, or just the mood both of your cars were in.

The more air in the more air out = more power....in a round about way. A bigger CAI will allow more air to come in. How much air? Probably not that much. If you are really wanted to pull what you can out of your car get a bigger CAI. But if you're that concerned with the diameter of your intake and blah blah blah to account for the more air in, you need more air out and an O/R mid pipe would really wake it up.

Tunes on N/A basic bolt on cars are simple. No super witchcraft needed there. Some guys might be able to pull a little more HP here or there but at the end with the same mods, any decent tune will be very close to another.

I personally like JLT. I've had them on all my cars. They are built very well, look great and I have always seen the gains they promise. I'd be very comfortable with a Steeda and a couple other brands but at the end of the day it goes back to what your first sentence says. The stock box on these cars are super efficient. Ford has really done their homework there. Even the TVS Roush kit uses something almost identical to the stock box design. You aren't getting the HP with the CAI. You are getting it in the tune. You MIGHT get 10hp on an N/A car with a bigger CAI over the stock box.

I'll try to sum it up. Get what you want. Buy a good/proven brand. Get the one you like to look at. Get one of the CAI's that require a tune. There is a reason it needs a tune. More air. More air = good (in most cases). Get it retuned. Locally. Not email tune. Be happy. Enjoy your car and don't worry about if you're really pulling all the power out that you can. At the end of the day it's probably 10hp on these cars and that's not worth the headache.

[DirtyD]

I think the engineer in you knows the answer to this question but the car guy in you is still wrestling with the fact you bought something that didn't work.

To me, it's pretty straight forward. Any performance part that is "no tune" required isn't going to be worth the money because obviously it doesn't change from near factory settings/specs. Those no tune required CAI's are more for asthetics rather than performance.

Personally, I've chosen to stay with the stock box until I go boosted since the kit will come with a CAI. No sense in spending the money two or three times.

I wish it were cooler so we could race to see if that CAI helped you at all versus my stock box.
Yeah, it definitely is hard. Especially since I spent that money. LOL

At this point, I don't mind selling it if the stock box will be an improvement. BUT if I can afford a used JLT/Steeda/etc. from selling the K&N, I would definitely go that route. My goal right now is to get a legit, 400 rwhp from this car, in SAE form. I know the whole ordeal about dyno numbers, but I want it to be a [hopeful] consistent 400 rwhp no matter what. Perfect air, dialed in dyno, etc.

Don't count out the bama tunestjey aren't horrible. As for me I have the jlt intake and compared to the K&N it's huge. I wish I could get the jlt with the box like the K&N though.
I wish that more people would do an enclosed element CAI. I know on boosted applications it's a different story since they need much more air, and an open filter allows that, but I would gladly pay a little more for an enclosed CAI for a N/A car.

[Grandpa]

Be happy. Enjoy your car and don't worry about if you're really pulling all the power out that you can. At the end of the day it's probably 10hp on these cars and that's not worth the headache.

Spot on.

[DirtyD]

I personally think you're over-thinking it. That being said, the ideal CAI has no changes in diameter from filter to TB. But that could make no difference whatsoever if K&N has done some R&D and their design helps vortices the air so it runs smoother into the engine. Either way I would put money that the differences are negligible. As you could see with him winning by half a car. That's almost no difference. Half a car could have been anything. Gears, the difference in the 19"s and 18"s, IAT's, or just the mood both of your cars were in.

The more air in the more air out = more power....in a round about way. A bigger CAI will allow more air to come in. How much air? Probably not that much. If you are really wanted to pull what you can out of your car get a bigger CAI. But if you're that concerned with the diameter of your intake and blah blah blah to account for the more air in, you need more air out and an O/R mid pipe would really wake it up.

Tunes on N/A basic bolt on cars are simple. No super witchcraft needed there. Some guys might be able to pull a little more HP here or there but at the end with the same mods, any decent tune will be very close to another.

I personally like JLT. I've had them on all my cars. They are built very well, look great and I have always seen the gains they promise. I'd be very comfortable with a Steeda and a couple other brands but at the end of the day it goes back to what your first sentence says. The stock box on these cars are super efficient. Ford has really done their homework there. Even the TVS Roush kit uses something almost identical to the stock box design. You aren't getting the HP with the CAI. You are getting it in the tune. You MIGHT get 10hp on an N/A car with a bigger CAI over the stock box.

I'll try to sum it up. Get what you want. Buy a good/proven brand. Get the one you like to look at. Get one of the CAI's that require a tune. There is a reason it needs a tune. More air. More air = good (in most cases). Get it retuned. Locally. Not email tune. Be happy. Enjoy your car and don't worry about if you're really pulling all the power out that you can. At the end of the day it's probably 10hp on these cars and that's not worth the headache.
I can agree with you completely. Like I said in the above post to Steve, I just want to get a legit 400 rwhp out of the car before I stop for awhile. And I'm sure a larger CAI would definitely get me there over stock or the K&N.

As for the tuning, I know having it done locally is ideal. However, since I have already paid and currently using a JPC tune, it's easier, and cheaper, at the moment for me to just get retuned from them over going with Kevin, TS, or another where I would have to shell out more money, only to then have a useless tune from JPC. JPC, AED, and Lund have proven to be the best email tunes out there compared to even local dyno tuning. Dale's car hung with Nic, which isn't too shabby of a claim for AED. So if I can save a couple hundred dollars when I get retuned for everything on my car, I will.

I will definitely be getting with Kevin when it comes time to switch to E85 on my car, because that will be a whole new tune setup.

[JDBishopArts]

If you want to hit 400hp. Steeda/JLT/C&L tune required CAI, O/R mid, axleback and good tune should get you there.

[Grandpa]

I have a Lethal H pipe, GT500's and a TS tune making 416rw on the stock box. :)

[ochoblanco]

I love the Airraid on my 12...has an insert that allows you to run "untuned" or remove the insert and get some more power with an aftermarket tune. The best mod on the market hands down is the mod between the steering wheel and the drivers seat.

Easiest way to 400+ whp: offroad mid, Lund or comparable tune, CAI (if you want), alum DS, and a Boss mani if you want to spin it past 7400

[DirtyD]

I have a Lethal H pipe, GT500's and a TS tune making 416rw on the stock box. :)

I love the Airraid on my 12...has an insert that allows you to run "untuned" or remove the insert and get some more power with an aftermarket tune. The best mod on the market hands down is the mod between the steering wheel and the drivers seat.

Easiest way to 400+ whp: offroad mid, Lund or comparable tune, CAI (if you want), alum DS, and a Boss mani if you want to spin it past 7400

Yeah, I know the mods I will need to get there, but I want to make sure I have everything to best ensure I do get there.

Also, the Boss IM is not in my plans. Not a fan of the low end TQ loss, and since I will be going with a PD blower in the future, no reason to even install it now.

[ochoblanco]

Yeah, I know the mods I will need to get there, but I want to make sure I have everything to best ensure I do get there.

Also, the Boss IM is not in my plans. Not a fan of the low end TQ loss, and since I will be going with a PD blower in the future, no reason to even install it now.

Personally I think you are over thinking it. If I were to go with a closed element CAI, I would keep the stock Boss box...but thats just me. Maybe do a dyno day in the near future and have a buddy with an open element CAI swap with you between runs. I am sure your tune can be adjusted for the other CAI with ease. At least you could see the difference (in cooler weather) btw your closed K&N and an Airraid/JLT/C&N/etc.

[DirtyD]

Personally I think you are over thinking it. If I were to go with a closed element CAI, I would keep the stock Boss box...but thats just me. Maybe do a dyno day in the near future and have a buddy with an open element CAI swap with you between runs. I am sure your tune can be adjusted for the other CAI with ease. At least you could see the difference (in cooler weather) btw your closed K&N and an Airraid/JLT/C&N/etc.
I would love to do that, but I would have to get a decent deal on some dyno time at a shop to do so, that way I would have time to swap intakes and tunes between each run. A dyno day is too fast paced to do that.

Also, I'm an engineer. Over thinking is under thinking. Haha

[Dan12GT]

This is why I love my Airaid. I can go either way with it. I have the "no tune" model but its the same thing as the "tune required". I just have to take out the insert when I tune.

[Grandpa]

Yeah, I know the mods I will need to get there, but I want to make sure I have everything to best ensure I do get there.

Also, the Boss IM is not in my plans. Not a fan of the low end TQ loss, and since I will be going with a PD blower in the future, no reason to even install it now.

I agree with you completely. I'm not a fan of the Boss intakes torque loss at all. With my style of driving I really want to keep as much torque as possible. I really enjoyed driving my ported Cobra with the instant torque with the short little blasts around town. With my 93 Cobra Vortech setup, while it was fun to drive still, I wasn't able to take full advantage having to really rev the motor to make the power as often as I would have liked to around town.

[TrueStreetTim]

If you end up looking to replace the CAI, I still love the K&N piece myself and perhaps this will help (if you haven't checked it out already) http://www.dfw50s.com/showthread.php?t=1442&highlight=throwdown

As you said "they do their homework" and are a solid company with stellar customer service.

[ochoblanco]

I would love to do that, but I would have to get a decent deal on some dyno time at a shop to do so, that way I would have time to swap intakes and tunes between each run. A dyno day is too fast paced to do that.

Also, I'm an engineer. Over thinking is under thinking. Haha

HAHA...I know many engineers...I did this on my 07 back in the day pre cam and boost. Swapped between the C&N, stock and JLT III on 3 separate runs. At least with my aftermarket tune at the time I could see the gains from both open element CAI's.

[DirtyD]

This is why I love my Airaid. I can go either way with it. I have the "no tune" model but its the same thing as the "tune required". I just have to take out the insert when I tune.
I am liking the Airraid too, but it appears that every one that comes up on the market used is gone instantly...:(

[Dan12GT]

Manny from HPP had me convinced Airaid makes good stuff so I opting ally went with it as my first mod. I'm sure with the tune it will really wake up but I think I can attribute it to some of the power gains I've made since stock

[DirtyD]

If you end up looking to replace the CAI, I still love the K&N piece myself and perhaps this will help (if you haven't checked it out already) http://www.dfw50s.com/showthread.php?t=1442&highlight=throwdown

As you said "they do their homework" and are a solid company with stellar customer service.
Thanks, Tim. I remember reading through that, but I would be interested really in seeing it all first hand.

It appears that the metal K&N intake doesn't have the neck down like the one I posted, and currently have installed. I don't know if that is a bigger tube or not either, so I'm curious to know if that one may actually be better...

I did find an AEM intake on Craigslist for $100. It does retain the closed element aspect, but I think I really would benefit more from a larger tube diameter, which I don't think the AEM would give me.

[TrueStreetTim]

I like the Airaid products and I actually dig that AEM piece too!

That is definitely and odd restriction on your K&N. Like you said though...it's due to being a NTR item. All of the K&N's I've sold have not had that bottleneck.

[DirtyD]

I like the Airaid products and I actually dig that AEM piece too!

That is definitely and odd restriction on your K&N. Like you said though...it's due to being a NTR item. All of the K&N's I've sold have not had that bottleneck.
Have you sold the ones that are the metal style intake tube?

How much would it be to get y'all to possibly make me a custom tube to fit this intake and powdercoat it?

[TrueStreetTim]

I haven't sold the metal version of the K&N to a 5.0, no. I have to some Camaro's though.

Our tube is 4" throughout so that you get every bit of flow out of the stock TB while keeping it future proofed should you upgrade the TB.

....PM sent.

[El_Tortuga]

First, I don't want this to turn into the classic debate thread about whether or not a CAI is worth it. Please don't post smart responses about it if that's all you are going to contribute.

Some backstory:
I purchased a K&N 63 series intake back in January. I had a K&N intake on my old F150 that seemed to be a decent pickup over the stock intake on the V6 it had. I figured that since K&N tends to do their homework, this CAI should be a decent upgrade over the stock box (yes I konw the stock box is a great design too).

With that being said, I installed the intake and have been enjoying it. I picked up a tune from the guys over at JPC Racing while using this intake, and the tune definitely helped. However I was a little niave about the intake until the other day. I noticed that at the area around the MAF necks down from the rest of the tube diameter as shown in the picture below. This really disappointed me, as I now understood why this was a "tune free" CAI.

http://www.knfilters.com/images/l/63-2578.jpg

Last night I Oxford14Stang (Jay/Jalal), who basically has the same mods (2013, 3.55s, Magnaflow Competition ABs, Steeda 101mm CAI, Bama tune, 235/50/18 stock wheels) as my car (2013, 3.55s, K&N CAI, GT500 ABs, JPC tune, 255/40/19 & 275/40/19 Brembos). He took almost every race by about 1/2-3/4 of a car over me, and was shift a little sooner than I was.

I have complete confidence in my JPC tune over the Bama tune, so it came down to the intake basically. I have the feeling that the fact this is a "tune free" CAI is really hurting the potential of the car, even though it has been tuned for this intake. I can now see why not many people are running it.

So...with all of that now said, I want to ask opinions, from my fellow '11-'14 owners, as well as any of the tuning gurus here, what your opinions are on where to proceed from here.

I have contemplated going back to the stock box, either temporarily, or permanently (until I go PD blower in the future). I am also thinking of getting a better, "tune required" CAI such as Steeda, JLT, etc. I know those CAIs perform. However, I have reserves about the open air filters in these cars:

1) We know about this Texas summer heat...
2) combine that with an open element filter under the closed hood of a engine running around 180°-200° WITHOUT the aid of the ambient air temp of 100°+, IATs are a nightmare in slow moving traffic.
3) I trimmed my hood carpet around the vents, and don't want to worry about problems with water leaking onto the filter through the hood vents.

I wouldn't mind getting an open element CAI as long as I could gaurantee the filter is completely, or almost completely, sealed from the heat of the engine bay, still utilizes the ram air inlet from the grill, and I can find a way to prevent possible water damage...

What do you guys think I should do as far as where to go from here?

Not a big difference, but if I'm doing my math right, 235/50/18s are about 27.25" OD, and 275/40/19s are about 27.7" OD. You've got a little taller tire = slightly taller gearing.

Now if I'm the other guy, I'm claiming better driving. ;)

[DirtyD]

Not a big difference, but if I'm doing my math right, 235/50/18s are about 27.25" OD, and 275/40/19s are about 27.7" OD. You've got a little taller tire = slightly taller gearing.

Now if I'm the other guy, I'm claiming better driving. ;)
Correct. But even then the difference in tire height only makes a 100-200 RPM difference at the top of the gears, which is very small, but maybe just small enough to shift earlier for Jay. Not to mention heavier wheels on my end, so I think his car could just rev up slightly quicker than mine.

[Pepperinyoureye]

Also will agree that I think you're over thinking it all lol. That being said I had the same K&N intake initially and switched to Air Raid and I'm loving it. I think this race was a matter of tire size and driving. Unless that Bama tune is putting down a little more which is a definite possibility (I put down 402 wheel with Bama tune and intake on a hot ass day)

[Pepperinyoureye]

Try stock box with a K&N drop in for a while

[Zeek]

My steeda intake and off road X I was at 410 with the Bama tune. I never had a problem with the "terrible" bama tunes.

[Pepperinyoureye]

My steeda intake and off road X I was at 410 with the Bama tune. I never had a problem with the "terrible" bama tunes.

Truth

[DirtyD]

Well I think it may be a combination of the K&N intake and also my tune I think it too low on timing and/or pulling timing up top. I'm going to see if I can get a couple of second opinions on the latter if I can find a laptop to datalog with this weekend.

I'm reinstalling the stock box Sunday night, so hopefully my tune for the K&N isn't too far off...

[thelandshark]

I think ur tune was a Lil weak jay is a good racer don't get me wrong but I don't see that intake killing u that much k&n makes very good parts maybe get a new tune and retry are have jay load his race tune an see what happens

[Oxford14Stang]

Derek, my car is a 14' thank you very much :-) lol. Had to say it. Second.. great runs again. Wasn't much of a differences but after looking at your intake design I personally don't like it. I choose steeda because I called bama and asked them what they made/seen more power out of, steeda or the jlt. They told me their stock 13' dynoed 370hp after steeda and bama tune it dynoed 408hp with jlt and bama tune it dynoed 403 so really no difference. Could of simply been IAT were hotter. So I personally would run either or over the k&n. Also I've never heard of JPC Racing so I can't really say anything about their tunes. Just don't see ppl tunning them. I have been extreamly pleased withy bama tune(performance, only ran race on the track) and would support them in an argument(to a point bahhhaa)

[DirtyD]

I think ur tune was a Lil weak jay is a good racer don't get me wrong but I don't see that intake killing u that much k&n makes very good parts maybe get a new tune and retry are have jay load his race tune an see what happens

Derek, my car is a 14' thank you very much :-) lol. Had to say it. Second.. great runs again. Wasn't much of a differences but after looking at your intake design I personally don't like it. I choose steeda because I called bama and asked them what they made/seen more power out of, steeda or the jlt. They told me their stock 13' dynoed 370hp after steeda and bama tune it dynoed 408hp with jlt and bama tune it dynoed 403 so really no difference. Could of simply been IAT were hotter. So I personally would run either or over the k&n. Also I've never heard of JPC Racing so I can't really say anything about their tunes. Just don't see ppl tunning them. I have been extreamly pleased withy bama tune(performance, only ran race on the track) and would support them in an argument(to a point bahhhaa)

Haha. I'm stupid. Haha.

Those dynos were in STD I'm sure, so SAE would've shown less of a gain, so it was just a marketing scheme to inflate numbers a little more.

JPC is kind of a East coast equivalent to AED. JPC are well known in the community, and have some of the fastest Coyotes being races at the strip.

As for the K&N design, since I have the same size area around the MAF location, I don't think I'm getting an advantage with more air like you are with the larger tube, which again is back to the "no tune required" ordeal.

I really think had I not missed 5th on the first run, that would've been a damn close one.

[Oxford14Stang]

It was a damn close run. I was asking thelandshark who I work with after he saw the video I was wondering why that first run we were neck and neck and the others I pulled. Didn't make sense. Also towards the end of the video there's a run where you pulled than I pulled it back in. a lot of unanswered questions but thats what we get for racing on the streets with no slips to see what we did.

[DirtyD]

It was a damn close run. I was asking thelandshark who I work with after he saw the video I was wondering why that first run we were neck and neck and the others I pulled. Didn't make sense. Also towards the end of the video there's a run where you pulled than I pulled it back in. a lot of unanswered questions but thats what we get for racing on the streets with no slips to see what we did.
Yeah, that's why I'm puzzled. It may have been the temp, it may not have been. Who knows. I think getting another matchup in when it's cooler may tell a little better story.

[Oxford14Stang]

Sounds great

[Rebelracer568]

I watched the videos. I notice in videos your car pulls then like hits wall and jay pulls away. I would look into your tune. I know jpc has some of baddest na coyotes around.

[DirtyD]

I watched the videos. I notice in videos your car pulls then like hits wall and jay pulls away. I would look into your tune. I know jpc has some of baddest na coyotes around.
I don't think it's my shifting. I was having clean shifts except for the lockouts in 5th and 3rd.

The issues are definitely occuring in the higher RPM. That is why I think my timing may be the culprit.

[Rebelracer568]

Yea your shifts looked good in the video. I would call jpc and see if they can send you a updated tune. I have some bama tunes I can send you. There for a c&l cai intake if you possibly wanna try it

[DirtyD]

Tune will be too rich since it's for a larger intake, and also won't be for my car since they are computer/ecu matched.

I'm going to get with JPC when they get back in the office next week. I don't have a laptop to log my current tune though, so that doesn't help.

[Oxford14Stang]

Derek, I used fords IDS and while I drove thelandshark monitored and recorded my a/f (my performance tune) at idle was 14.2-14.3 under wide open throttle it was 12.29 so I'm running rich on top end.. better rich than lean I always say :D

[DirtyD]

Derek, I used fords IDS and while I drove thelandshark monitored and recorded my a/f (my performance tune) at idle was 14.2-14.3 under wide open throttle it was 12.29 so I'm running rich on top end.. better rich than lean I always say :D

Can you check timing with that as well?

[Mrjeremyt]

I know the IDS can watch timing...

[03MachMe]

I think you are WAY over thinking one race with another car

[re-rx7]

at idle was 14.2-14.3 under wide open throttle it was 12.29

but...bu.. its a bama tune.?

[Oxford14Stang]

but...bu.. its a bama tune.?

Aahh haha, I know riggggght?

[re-rx7]

Fudge it.

[Oxford14Stang]

Hey are you on the fb page?

[re-rx7]

nope.

[Oxford14Stang]

No fun..

[re-rx7]

Lol why is that?

[46Tbird]

I think you are WAY over thinking one race with another car

Way.

Don't read too much into it. And don't waste your time on an intake that doesn't require a tune; they usually slow a car down because while not letting more air in than stock, they do get heat soak. Get a good intake, do some datalogging, go to the track. That's the only way to quantify your gains and see how driving technique affects your times.

[DirtyD]

Fuck it. I'm just going to stop saying anything anymore.

I know that I'm going more in-depth than is really necessary, but sorry for asking for insight and opinions for other people.

[re-rx7]

Fuck it. I'm just going to stop saying anything anymore.

I know that I'm going more in-depth than is really necessary, but sorry for asking for insight and opinions for other people.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f3/hotdoggies/COON_zps6f2fc130.png (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/hotdoggies/media/COON_zps6f2fc130.png.html)

[thelandshark]

Just do what u think is best man steeda makes awesome power off there intakes jlts are good to k&n won't give u max power out of it cause of the bottle neck

[DirtyD]

No butt-hurt.

I'm just fucking tired of getting ragged on for applying actual logic to a situation.

Logic is the basis of my thought process. That is how I think of a situation and develop a theory and/or conclusion. I'm not just saying shit out of my ass with no idea of what I'm even talking about.

Yeah, I get I lack the actual racing experience that would prove otherwise. Oh well. When I get proven wrong, I will accept I was wrong.

[re-rx7]

No butt-hurt.

I'm just fucking tired of getting ragged on for applying actual logic to a situation.

Logic is the basis of my thought process. That is how I think of a situation and develop a theory and/or conclusion. I'm not just saying shit out of my ass with no idea of what I'm even talking about.

Yeah, I get I lack the actual racing experience that would prove otherwise. Oh well. When I get proven wrong, I will accept I was wrong.

Sometunes are better somecars come from the factory faster. Maybe he is a better driver.

[DirtyD]

Just do what u think is best man steeda makes awesome power off there intakes jlts are good to k&n won't give u max power out of it cause of the bottle neck

I will admit I was naive when it came to intakes about these cars. I let the fact the K&N was a closed box outweigh the true reason I was purchasing a CAI. I should've put that aside and been more focused on the power I wanted to gain rather than keeping a stock appearance.

[DirtyD]

Sometunes are better somecars come from the factory faster. Maybe he is a better driver.

No offense to Jay, but I think we are both equal in driving ability. The first race of the video shows that we were neck and neck until I was locked out of 5th gear. There were other races that showed the same.

I really think that my tune is not as strong up top as it should be, hence why he was pulling away at the higher RPMs, and also why he was able to catch and pass me at higher RPMs as well.

[re-rx7]

I will admit I was naive when it came to intakes about these cars. I let the fact the K&N was a closed box outweigh the true reason I was purchasing a CAI. I should've put that aside and been more focused on the power I wanted to gain rather than keeping a stock appearance.
Always research. I spokw with people on here and googled for near a month before I bought a intake.
No offense to Jay, but I think we are both equal in driving ability. The first race of the video shows that we were neck and neck until I was locked out of 5th gear. There were other races that showed the same.

I really think that my tune is not as strong up top as it should be, hence why he was pulling away at the higher RPMs, and also why he was able to catch and pass me at higher RPMs as well.
How long have you been driving a quick car?

[DirtyD]

Always research. I spokw with people on here and googled for near a month before I bought a intake.

How long have you been driving a quick car?

I did research. But like I said, I let myself put too much stock into getting a closed element CAI over an open element, even though almost all the open element intake were the ones to make the most power. I always bought my CAI before I got a tune, so I wanted run I could run without a tune but (in my mind) would be on par after a tune with others. I know recognize that isn't true.

I've been driving my car just over a year now, bought it last July.

Before that I had an auto F150, but I've known how to drive a stick for many many years.

[re-rx7]

I did research. But like I said, I let myself put too much stock into getting a closed element CAI over an open element, even though almost all the open element intake were the ones to make the most power. I always bought my CAI before I got a tune, so I wanted run I could run without a tune but (in my mind) would be on par after a tune with others. I know recognize that isn't true.

I've been driving my car just over a year now, bought it last July.

Before that I had an auto F150, but I've known how to drive a stick for many many years.

Thats the difference though, some people on here have drove performance cars for years if not decades. Sounds like you were wanting a intake really bad but did not have the money for both. I went through that but ended up just saving.

[Grandpa]

Logic and reason are great in a discussion when you have all the facts and expierence otherwise its just conjecture based on ignorance. You need seat time D and first hand expierence with your car. No two cars alike. You can have the same exact mods, tune and same driver making passes and get different results more times than not because they are two different cars regardless if they are the same make/model.

[re-rx7]

Logic and reason are great in a discussion when you have all the facts and expierence otherwise its just conjecture based on ignorance. You need seat time D and first hand expierence with your car. No two cars alike. You can have the same exact mods, tune and same driver making passes and get different results more times than not because they are two different cars regardless if they are the same make/model.

Steves on fire today.

[DirtyD]

Logic and reason are great in a discussion when you have all the facts and expierence otherwise its just conjecture based on ignorance. You need seat time D and first hand expierence with your car. No two cars alike. You can have the same exact mods, tune and same driver making passes and get different results more times than not because they are two different cars regardless if they are the same make/model.

I'm not denying I don't have the years of experience that other hear have. I also understand no two cars are exactly alike, but they also will not very drastically from each other either. You can't deny that point.

I'm not being ignorant either. Just don't get why I can't have an opinion of my own based on the information I have at my disposal, and get slammed for said opinion. It's an opinion. Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one, and they will not always be the same as another. Just ignore it and move on. When I finally get enough experience under my belt, I'm sure I will have a change of mind. Until then, this is me.

[re-rx7]

I also understand no two cars are exactly alike, but they also will not very drastically from each other either. You can't deny that point..

You have lots to learn.

[DirtyD]

You have lots to learn.

So you are saying that two cars can be completely and totally different from each other? Eliminating driver error, on two completely stock cars and one would be an absolute turd compared to the other?

[re-rx7]

So you are saying that two cars can be completely and totally different from each other? Eliminating driver error, on two completely stock cars and one would be an absolute turd compared to the other?

Thats exactly what im saying. The fact you have never heard of a "built on monday" or "built on Wednesday" car tells me you need to learn.

[thelandshark]

I think a lot of it is ur tune and jay has been around street racing since he was a kid his dad use to take him out everytime he went so jay learned a lot from his old man geting locked out of gears and a weak tune was more than likely the problem

[re-rx7]

So you are saying that two cars can be completely and totally different from each other? Eliminating driver error, on two completely stock cars and one would be an absolute turd compared to the other?

Race me and lets test that gear theory.

[Oxford14Stang]

Derek what rx7 is saying is true. I'm sure you've heard the term "factory freak" meaning even though you have two cars alike doesn't mean they'll perform the same way. One car may dyno 375 HP then other 355 HP. Therefore one being a little faster or putting down very good power. As far as driving goes there was no doubt Derek could drive his car. His shifts were quick and clean. As the first run shows we were neck and neck, other runs as I noticed at the top of each gear I pulled, I hit 5th every run but let off seconds into it. Never ran it out. As far as our two cars they are indeed same mod and same setup.. (not exactly but you know what I mean) so should be within reason of each other. Again your upper rpms were no doubt where your car was falling I'd datalog and go from there. Wouldn't quiet start jumping the gun and pointing fingers. Again, great runs. And we will run them again soon

[re-rx7]

Derek what rx7 is saying is true. I'm sure you've heard the term "factory freak" meaning even though you have two cars alike doesn't mean they'll perform the same way. One car may dyno 375 HP then other 355 HP. Therefore one being a little faster or putting down very good power. As far as driving goes there was no doubt Derek could drive his car. His shifts were quick and clean. As the first run shows we were neck and neck, other runs as I noticed at the top of each gear I pulled, I hit 5th every run but let off seconds into it. Never ran it out. As far as our two cars they are indeed same mod and same setup.. (not exactly but you know what I mean) so should be within reason of each other. Again your upper rpms were no doubt where your car was falling I'd datalog and go from there. Wouldn't quiet start jumping the gun and pointing fingers. Again, great runs. And we will run them again soon

Bullshit. Bama tunes are crap ask anyone.:killer:

[Oxford14Stang]

Like I said, datalog your car Derek lol. And rx7 I'll be using bama until I'm fully bolted.

[re-rx7]

Like I said, datalog your car Derek lol. And rx7 I'll be using bama until I'm fully bolted.

I will as well, till I get the juice on my car.

[Midnight11]

All of y'all are slow :D

[re-rx7]

All of y'all are slow :D

says the guy that put a fender on a intake, xpipe, bama tuned 5.0.:lol2:

[Midnight11]

Says the guy that just trolls and never comes to anything

[DirtyD]

Thats exactly what im saying. The fact you have never heard of a "built on monday" or "built on Wednesday" car tells me you need to learn.
I have heard that term. But I honestly don't believe that it can be an absolute night and day difference like you are insinuating. I can see how one would be slightly faster or quicker than another. But not as drastic as one may think. That's just me though.

I think a lot of it is ur tune and jay has been around street racing since he was a kid his dad use to take him out everytime he went so jay learned a lot from his old man geting locked out of gears and a weak tune was more than likely the problem
I am starting to agree with you.

Race me and lets test that gear theory.
I would take you up on that, but to travel up there or you travel down here I don't think is fair, unless we met halfway or did it when one of us happened to be in the area.

Derek what rx7 is saying is true. I'm sure you've heard the term "factory freak" meaning even though you have two cars alike doesn't mean they'll perform the same way. One car may dyno 375 HP then other 355 HP. Therefore one being a little faster or putting down very good power. As far as driving goes there was no doubt Derek could drive his car. His shifts were quick and clean. As the first run shows we were neck and neck, other runs as I noticed at the top of each gear I pulled, I hit 5th every run but let off seconds into it. Never ran it out. As far as our two cars they are indeed same mod and same setup.. (not exactly but you know what I mean) so should be within reason of each other. Again your upper rpms were no doubt where your car was falling I'd datalog and go from there. Wouldn't quiet start jumping the gun and pointing fingers. Again, great runs. And we will run them again soon
Like I said, datalog your car Derek lol. And rx7 I'll be using bama until I'm fully bolted.
I apologize if it seemed like I was pointing fingers. I'm not trying to take anything from you. We were definitely about equivalent in driving, from what I could tell. Only way to know would be internal cameras in the cars. Haha

I need to get my laptop com fixed first before I can datalog. It currently doesn't charge the battery, or recognize AC power, and the battery has like 5% battery left, which isn't enough time to run a datalog.

[re-rx7]

Says the guy that just trolls and never comes to anything

Truth is not trolling. I do come out just not to Coit and 190. Im usually at the tuesday meet in Denton.

[Midnight11]

Truth is not trolling. I do come out just not to Coit and 190. Im usually at the tuesday meet in Denton.

Cool story. How about you run your car?

[DirtyD]

Race me and lets test that gear theory.

If you want to prove anything, I will be at Ennis next weekend if you want to come beat me with with your car.

I'll gladly be waiting. I will never go to Northstar.

[re-rx7]

Cool story. How about you run your car?
Anytime. Tuesdays im at denton Taco Csa.

If you want to prove anything, I will be at Ennis next weekend if you want to come beat me with with your car.

I'll gladly be waiting. I will never go to Northstar.

Northstar is better prepped. Many people agree.

[Oxford14Stang]

Derek I didn't mean you were pointing fingers at me or insulting me. When I said that I ment don't blame your tune or intake yet without data log. You and me are all good man lol. I'll be out at Ennis next Saturday as well getting my ass kicked by ant speed lol. Perhaps we run them on the track? Your tires alone will hand my ass lol. Will be great though.

[DirtyD]

Anytime. Tuesdays im at denton Taco Csa.



Northstar is better prepped. Many people agree.

Do you not see anything other people have posted about Northstar? Rebelracer even said the track is coming apart. It is known they don't prep for test and tune sessions, so I'm not sure where you are getting your info from.

[Oxford14Stang]

Anytime. Tuesdays im at denton Taco Csa.



Northstar is better prepped. Many people agree.


Say what? I don't know man. Its either my stock tires are hurting me that bad or the track prep is terrible. I have in car footage of me going sideways on the track in 3rs gear.

[DirtyD]

Derek I didn't mean you were pointing fingers at me or insulting me. When I said that I ment don't blame your tune or intake yet without data log. You and me are all good man lol. I'll be out at Ennis next Saturday as well getting my ass kicked by ant speed lol. Perhaps we run them on the track? Your tires alone will hand my ass lol. Will be great though.

Sounds like a plan. I still spin them, but you are definitely in a far less position with those tires. Lol

[re-rx7]

There was a tread not long ago I believe Junkie was talking about it.

[Oxford14Stang]

All of y'all are slow :D

Damn, I think I'm starting to hear that more often lol

[Oxford14Stang]

There was a tread not long ago I believe Junkie was talking about it.

About the track prep? I honestly believe its terrible. Reberacer walked the track just last week and said it was comming apart.

[re-rx7]

About the track prep? I honestly believe its terrible. Reberacer walked the track just last week and said it was comming apart.

He was saying the Denton track was better I believe.

[Oxford14Stang]

He was saying the Denton track was better I believe.

Noooo Derek and rebelracer both said the prep and the track are terrible at northstar

[DirtyD]

He was saying the Denton track was better I believe.

Northstar is the only track in Denton. Lol

[re-rx7]

Northstar is the only track in Denton. Lol

No shit?:025:

[Oxford14Stang]

:chillpill:

[downtime!]

One of HPP's customer cars went 5.60 on Friday night at Northstar on his second run ever in the car. I'd say track prep is/was pretty good.

[DirtyD]

One of HPP's customer cars went 5.60 on Friday night at Northstar on his second run ever in the car. I'd say track prep is/was pretty good.

Yeah, I met up with Robert today and he said that they were doing bracket and jr dragster there last night, so that's one reason why the track prep was better than normal

[Oxford14Stang]

One of HPP's customer cars went 5.60 on Friday night at Northstar on his second run ever in the car. I'd say track prep is/was pretty good.

Okay I don't know how to put this, they prep the track whenever a badass car pulls up to the line, like trailer queens, dragsters, race bikes, shit like that. For your test & tune cars, and or street cars they don't do shit!! on top of all that rebelracer who lives across the street from the track, and has been racing there since he was a kid in jr dragsters took professional pictures on the track(as you'd see on the facebook page when he posted some pics up), and when he walked the track he said the track was coming apart, pieces just breaking and cracking all over the track. So you can't tell me that northstar has "good prepping" they've got a select few times that they do prep. if you'd like i'll post the video of in-car-cam of me running down the track and losing traction hitting third gear going sideways at 70mph. That is complete bullshit. I shouldn't have to lift off the gas twice to get my car straight more than half way down the track and run a 9.0

Yeah, I met up with Robert today and he said that they were doing bracket and jr dragster there last night, so that's one reason why the track prep was better than normal

that's the only time they ever do anything.

[Oxford14Stang]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivuq5WNnGbU

that's the video. Listen to second gear as I had to let off cause i felt the car starting to slide, than listen/watch as I hit third gear.

[KalEl370]

Yeah, I met up with Robert today and he said that they were doing bracket and jr dragster there last night, so that's one reason why the track prep was better than normal

Yea it was tough getting runs in. Only had a chance between jr dragsters and brackets. After a run or two they would call the jrs back up. Good meeting you Derek.

[downtime!]

Okay I don't know how to put this, they prep the track whenever a badass car pulls up to the line, like trailer queens, dragsters, race bikes, shit like that. For your test & tune cars, and or street cars they don't do shit!! on top of all that rebelracer who lives across the street from the track, and has been racing there since he was a kid in jr dragsters took professional pictures on the track(as you'd see on the facebook page when he posted some pics up), and when he walked the track he said the track was coming apart, pieces just breaking and cracking all over the track. So you can't tell me that northstar has "good prepping" they've got a select few times that they do prep. if you'd like i'll post the video of in-car-cam of me running down the track and losing traction hitting third gear going sideways at 70mph. That is complete bullshit. I shouldn't have to lift off the gas twice to get my car straight more than half way down the track and run a 9.0



that's the only time they ever do anything.I don't know how to put this, but it takes a solid 20 minutes to "prep" a lane, so no, they don't do it before a "hot" car comes to the line. They might spray a little extra VHT on the line, but if you watch, they do that after so many passes anyway. From the vid you posted, I'm going to say you were on street tires, and spinning on streets is not a matter of track prep, but of driver mod. You think you should be able to launch and keep it pinned like a race car? You modulate the amount of gas pedal to accommodate your current level of traction. If you're spinning, you feather the gas until it stops, and then get back into it, it's called "pedaling". And for the record, nothing, and I mean nothing, screws up a well prepped track like someone spinning their street tires half way down the track.

[DirtyD]

I don't know how to put this, but it takes a solid 20 minutes to "prep" a lane, so no, they don't do it before a "hot" car comes to the line. They might spray a little extra VHT on the line, but if you watch, they do that after so many passes anyway. From the vid you posted, I'm going to say you were on street tires, and spinning on streets is not a matter of track prep, but of driver mod. You think you should be able to launch and keep it pinned like a race car? You modulate the amount of gas pedal to accommodate your current level of traction. If you're spinning, you feather the gas until it stops, and then get back into it, it's called "pedaling". And for the record, nothing, and I mean nothing, screws up a well prepped track like someone spinning their street tires half way down the track.

Jeff was even having trouble launching on DRs at a test and tune might. Beau couldn't get it to do much better. Hooking just wasn't happening.

[downtime!]

Answer me one question then, how did a car making 800 hp hook up and run a new personal best of 5.60 that night, when ya'll couldn't get 400 hp to hook up and run?

Half the battle of drag racing is figuring out the track and how your car reacts to its differing conditions. You play with your launch rpm, going up incrementally until you start to spin, and then you start varying your rear air pressure, taking a pound out every run until you bog, then you start raising your launch rpm again. It's not a guessing game, and it's not "shoot and pray".

You don't just go out and run, have a shitty lap and then blame it on the track. HPP goes out there every Friday, and every Friday, their cars and their customer cars, run some really quick times, so it can't just be the track prep.

Spend some time learning how your car reacts to the conditions. That means don't just go out there and nail it and hang on, really learn how to drive your car. What RPM does it like to launch at. Do you even look at the tach before a run? What tire pressure does it like for a given temperature? Did you check tire pressure?

That's what drag racing is actually all about. Learning your particular car and how it reacts in different conditions.

There are way too many cars out there, on any given night, that can go fast no matter what, so don't blame it on track prep. Optimize your combination, learn how to really drive it (that does NOT mean point it down track, mat the gas and hang on for the ride), and then see what happens.

[DirtyD]

I've never run mine, so I can't really talk...lol

[downtime!]

Not ragging on ya man, just get tired of hearing "bad track prep" from people that haven't figured out how to drive their cars yet. Yes, sometimes the track does suck, but not every time out. Too many people running good to blame it on the track every time.

[03MachMe]

I ran some great times at Northstar in the mach with just tired exhaust and gears

[DirtyD]

I ran some great times at Northstar in the mach with just tired exhaust and gears
That was before they changed owners, I'm sure.

[Oxford14Stang]

I don't know how to put this, but it takes a solid 20 minutes to "prep" a lane, so no, they don't do it before a "hot" car comes to the line. They might spray a little extra VHT on the line, but if you watch, they do that after so many passes anyway. From the vid you posted, I'm going to say you were on street tires, and spinning on streets is not a matter of track prep, but of driver mod. You think you should be able to launch and keep it pinned like a race car? You modulate the amount of gas pedal to accommodate your current level of traction. If you're spinning, you feather the gas until it stops, and then get back into it, it's called "pedaling". And for the record, nothing, and I mean nothing, screws up a well prepped track like someone spinning their street tires half way down the track.

I'm not going to have a pissing contest with you. And you're correct, I was on street tires, matter of fact the stock shitty 235/55/18s that come on the car. As far as driver mod goes and launching the car, I was launching the car at roughly 2,000 rpms in the video you can see it hooked just fine in first gear. I didn't have problems until 2nd gear(which I let off and got back on) and than third gear(which IMO was bullshit) regardless of what kind of tires I'm on. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't a track suppose to have more grip than the streets? That's what I was always told. I'm not going to lie to you, I'm a newbie when it comes to the track, or track racing. I've always done street racing, and I can tell you, I broke loose at 70mph on the track, I'd be damned if I break loose and go sideways on the streets like that. I'm also well aware of the term "pedaling" my old man always referred to it as "feathering" and I understand and know that street tires screw up a so called well prepped track. But at the time I couldn't and sometimes people cant afford better tires. I'm ordering some 275s tomorrow they'll still be street tires but I have to work with what I got. And I don't want to sound like a dick or anything, and I'm not trying to start anything with you but everyone makes a big deal about hwy rolls or street racing but bitch when we actually go to the track with our street tires. Seems like it's a lose/lose situation. I've ran good times at the track, just so happens it's never happened again. I've ran a best of a 8.33 and ran consistent 8.4-8.6 all night long with the same setup I have now and same stock tires.

[downtime!]

It's not a pissing contest, it's supposed to inspire you to learn what you're doing wrong and make it better.

No, street tires are not supposed to hook better at the track than on the street. The track is designed for slicks or dr's. It's a smooth surface (relatively speaking) that is covered with the sticky compound of the tracks choice, and rubber laid down from all the previous runs. Streets, on the other hand, are full of small bumps (pebbles and what not) pressed into the asphalt, or grooves and texture lines in the concrete, and that gives the tread on your tires something to grab on to.

Being well aware of a term, and knowing how to do it, are two totally different things. Pedaling is extremely hard to learn to do correctly, because your natural instinct when the tires start to slip is to let off the gas completely and slow down. I learned how to do it because back in the day, DR's did not exist. All we had was slicks or streets. Running on the slicks back then was like strapping a set of skates on a pig. Cars would squirm on the launch, and then get loose on the big end and skate all over the track. Going really fast back then meant that more than likely, you crossed the stripe looking out the passenger window. Not fun, but you learn to compensate for it.

Being able to afford better tires has nothing to do with anything I'm talking about here. Sure, it's easy to slap a set of DR's on your car and go fast. But it can be done without them. It's not easy, and it requires a good deal of patience and a lot of trips to the track. Wider street tires will help. It also helps to do some research and get the softest rubber compound street tire you can find. They won't last as long, but they'll be easier to get hooked. Look for something with a rating below 280 if possible. For comparison, NT555's run in the 300 range, and most DR's are in the 100 range.

If you're spinning, doesn't matter what gear you're in, you're trying to get more power to the track than your traction will allow. Simple, right? Ever heard the old saying slow down to go faster? Use less gas pedal, modulate the brake pedal at the same time (this is an old trick to help with wheel spin), feather out, ease it back in, shift earlier, there are literally tons of things to do to help control spin. You can air down street tires a little bit, but you have to be careful to not go so low that you run the risk of breaking the bead seal. I've never ran street tires lower than 20 psi.

I'd actually rather you be at the track than racing on the streets. I did it for years, and I try not to be too hypocritical about that, but the simple facts are that these days, there are just more people on the roads at any given time, so the chances of a "bad" encounter and simply higher. The penalties for street racing are also much more severe than they used to be. When I was your age, "street racing" wasn't even an offense. It was called Exhibition of Acceleration, and it was a $50 fine. So please, take it to the track. Just take some time to really learn your car. Keep records, get a notebook and write down everything about the runs. Time of day, temperature, humidity, tire pressure, launch rpm, shock settings, ET, MPH, etc. It's all important. This will give you a baseline for setting the car up when you get to the track. You can look back through your notes, and see that on such and such day, the weather was about the same as it is now, and this is what worked that day. You start there, then make small adjustments to accommodate the track prep that will surely be different from the last time.

It's not hard, it just takes a little time and a little dedication. And, it's actually kind of fun too. You've already ran some pretty good numbers, start following these guidelines and you'll be repeating them no matter what the conditions are.

[46Tbird]

Good posts!

Oxford, in that vid, the biggest thing I see being a problem is how hard the tires were getting shocked during shifts. The stock Pirellis just won't take that when you combine it with all the rubbery goodness of the stock suspension. No amount of track prep will keep that combination of tire, suspension, and driving style planted.

I've seen some mid-11 passes on the stock Pirellis, so it can be done. The trick is keeping the tires planted, so anything that keeps the rear end from moving around is good. Control arms will help and of course so will sticky tires, but smooth clutch engagement seems to be the real trick.

[ochoblanco]

Good information!!! Although I have always been under the impression to never deflate street tires when running them at the track.

[Oxford14Stang]

Downtime, you seem like a knowledgeable man so I don't know what makes you think I haven't tried just about everything. I've tried different launches, 3k, 2500, 2000, idle, have messed with air pressure, regular pressure, 25psi, 20psi, even 17 and 14 once(didn't help lol was desperate), have tried traction control on, off, speed shifting, and granny. I've always feathered it when I had to but in that video it was to the point where I had to let off and focus in saving the car, I've done everything besides write down all my conditions and numbers. I have saved all my slips from every pass. I'm pretty much doing the same thing now as I did when I ran 8.3-8.6 consistently. Just seems the last two times I've gone I've been losing more and more traction, I'm sure my thread depth now may play a factor in that. I've even thrown my keys to rebelracer one night out there when I couldn't seem to run anything else than 8.8s and 8.9s as he pulled up they prepped he had to wait. He took it down the track after that and still ran the same 8.9 I did. Him saying he couldn't get the car to hook. No doubt the stock tires are killing me I know but its not like I haven't tried everything and anything I could think of.

46TBird thank you for your input on it, I know the stock suspension blows on these cars I just got it lowered and plan on buying struts and shocks soon, as well as the rear lca

[DirtyD]

Get a UCA before LCAs, Jay. Those are the wheel hop solvers.

[46Tbird]

At 400hp, just try some good tires. I run consistent 7.9s on an untuned car with Sportlines and 20" Nitto drag radials. I would expect you guys to be in the mid 7s with the tunes and some good grip.

[Oxford14Stang]

Get a UCA before LCAs, Jay. Those are the wheel hop solvers.

I almost never have issues with my car wheel hopping. Have only felt it maybe 3-4 times and was only for a split second.

At 400hp, just try some good tires. I run consistent 7.9s on an untuned car with Sportlines and 20" Nitto drag radials. I would expect you guys to be in the mid 7s with the tunes and some good grip.

That's impressive man. I'd say your a damn good driver and know your car well. I could see 7.9s out of my car with set of good tires. No doubt.

[re-rx7]

I ran 8 flat on stock 235's at Denton hoppin and skipping with a trap of 91.

[downtime!]

Downtime, you seem like a knowledgeable man so I don't know what makes you think I haven't tried just about everything. I've tried different launches, 3k, 2500, 2000, idle, have messed with air pressure, regular pressure, 25psi, 20psi, even 17 and 14 once(didn't help lol was desperate), have tried traction control on, off, speed shifting, and granny. I've always feathered it when I had to but in that video it was to the point where I had to let off and focus in saving the car, I've done everything besides write down all my conditions and numbers. I have saved all my slips from every pass. I'm pretty much doing the same thing now as I did when I ran 8.3-8.6 consistently. Just seems the last two times I've gone I've been losing more and more traction, I'm sure my thread depth now may play a factor in that. I've even thrown my keys to rebelracer one night out there when I couldn't seem to run anything else than 8.8s and 8.9s as he pulled up they prepped he had to wait. He took it down the track after that and still ran the same 8.9 I did. Him saying he couldn't get the car to hook. No doubt the stock tires are killing me I know but its not like I haven't tried everything and anything I could think of.

46TBird thank you for your input on it, I know the stock suspension blows on these cars I just got it lowered and plan on buying struts and shocks soon, as well as the rear lcaIt could be as simple as worn tires. As was mentioned, suspension work is big on these cars, though all I have on mine currently is LCA's. Conventional drag race wisdom says that lowering a car is bad, but there are several cars, like Danny's, that run very strong and consistent using Sportlines. I have the ProKit springs on mine and will likely change them out for the drag launch kit if the new tune is successful.

I wasn't meaning to sound like I was ragging on you either, I just see too many times where someone blames the track and gets frustrated and stops racing. Just trying to throw some ideas out there to give you stuff to try and hopefully keep you motivated. When I get mine back from the shop, maybe we can get together at the track. I'll let you use my DR's and we'll see what that car can do!

[Oxford14Stang]

It could be as simple as worn tires. As was mentioned, suspension work is big on these cars, though all I have on mine currently is LCA's. Conventional drag race wisdom says that lowering a car is bad, but there are several cars, like Danny's, that run very strong and consistent using Sportlines. I have the ProKit springs on mine and will likely change them out for the drag launch kit if the new tune is successful.

I wasn't meaning to sound like I was ragging on you either, I just see too many times where someone blames the track and gets frustrated and stops racing. Just trying to throw some ideas out there to give you stuff to try and hopefully keep you motivated. When I get mine back from the shop, maybe we can get together at the track. I'll let you use my DR's and we'll see what that car can do!

No worries man, no offense taken. Would Love to get together at the track someday, maybe soon? Thanks for your info. I'll keep it all in mind.

[thelandshark]

I'm down for joinin that track day I wanna see downtime car run

[Oxford14Stang]

I'm down for joinin that track day I wanna see downtime car run

Yeah would be sweet to watch his car run.


Downtime what shop is your car at now? What's all getting done and when do you expect to get it back?

[DirtyD]

Yeah would be sweet to watch his car run.


Downtime what shop is your car at now? What's all getting done and when do you expect to get it back?
HPP most likely.

[Oxford14Stang]

HPP most likely.

That's what I was thinking.

[JDBishopArts]

I'll add this too. Just because you're on the track doesn't mean you shift and put your foot through the floor and get mad because you spin. Even stock these cars put down 360-380hp to the ground. That isn't chump HP. On the street tires that come on these cars you can't stomp on it.

You have to feel your car. Learn to drive it. LEARN. Not watch fast and furious and think you're a racing god. Driving a car is easy. Driving it right takes work and practice.

[thelandshark]

^^ this guy lol. I got my driveing skills from grand theft auto 3

[JDBishopArts]

Annnnd boom goes the dynamite.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/stuartaewilson/brian2.gif

[JDMLOL]

I'll add this too. Just because you're on the track doesn't mean you shift and put your foot through the floor and get mad because you spin. Even stock these cars put down 360-380hp to the ground. That isn't chump HP. On the street tires that come on these cars you can't stomp on it.

You have to feel your car. Learn to drive it. LEARN. Not watch fast and furious and think you're a racing god. Driving a car is easy. Driving it right takes work and practice.

This seems to be a pretty good discussion... I have only made two passes ever in an old c10 truck. I have to agree with JD these cars make quite a bit of power from the factory, especially for some kid that is 20 something (like me) that has really never had any racing experience on a track. Sure, some of you guys throw around 800-1000rwhp like it's nothing but most of the guys doing that have a few years on me. I'm not quite ready to track my car yet because I want to have a daily and be financially capable to make repairs once I start breaking stuff. I'm seriously considering buying something less powerful to track just to get a feel for it and get it down. I honestly think this car is too much for me to start off with. Some of you guys have been doing this since the late 70s and 80s when the exact same cars had less than half the power of what is available now. Would you all agree that it's better to start a little smaller for someone with less experience?

[46Tbird]

No. Put your panties on and don't fuck up.

[JDMLOL]

No. Put your panties on and don't fuck up.

And if I do I still owe 25k on a brand new car that's fucked? Lol. I answered my own question I guess.

[Midnight11]

The initial fear is gone the first pass down. I was there once

[46Tbird]

We all were.

But us old guys didn't have someone like Dale standing by the waterbox to catch whatever stupid shit we did on video. :D

[Grandpa]

We all were.

But us old guys didn't have someone like Dale standing by the waterbox to catch whatever stupid shit we did on video. :D

LOL, absolutely. We've all been there, all screwed up, some more than others.

I'll give you one of my good screw ups. First time ever lauching my coupe on the bottle and soft type drag racing suspension. It was a plate system on a carb'd set up so it pretty hard. I moved my seat up to make sure I got the clutch to the floor and almost no decline in the back of the seat so I was sitting pretty close to straight up to make sure I had a good hold on the shifter. Well when I launched the car, my head went backwards and it lifted the front of the car off the ground about 4-5 inches. Well, my helmet got stuck on the roof of the car when the car came down and I couldn't see so let out and headers hitting the ground made a LOUD ...CLANG! Ugh, thought I destroyed the car. lol.

[Oxford14Stang]

Damn Steve! Bishop downtime and I have got it figured out. Thnxs

[garner]

Yeah you get used to it eventually. My first pass was about 3 years ago in a 210 hp car but quickly got used to it, then it became addicting and I've drag raced since.

This car is gonna be a different experience though cause of the power and skinny tires, but after the first few passes it'll be fun again

[downtime!]

Well, ya'll may not believe this, but the car is back at Gearheads. They did all the work to it prior to the blower install, and with Travis' tune in it, I went 11.60's at 119 in 1900 DA. I've had issues with their tunes in the past, but only minor things. They tuned my Procharged '03 with good results, so I figured let's give them a chance. We're changing the plugs out (toss the Brisk and slip in some Motorcraft 524's), then they'll try to smooth out the tune. If that doesn't work, we'll be going with some ID1000's and ditching the FRPP 80's. I'm also going to have them install a catted X pipe and reinstall the clutch helper spring. Should have some info on the car by tomorrow, they were supposed to get it on the dyno today, but I was too busy to call.

[Midnight11]

i know alot of tuners have issues with the 80lb injectors...

[downtime!]

Yes they do. They have an odd spray pattern that seems to mess things up pretty good as far as street driving goes.

[46Tbird]

I know some tuners have had good results with other injectors, but my feeling is they are more comfortable working with ID1000s. When you supposed to have it back?

[Pepperinyoureye]

Damn I can remember at age 16 going out Friday after high school to get the liability release form notarized with my parents so I could hit up the track (1/4 mile) with all my buddies. Needless to say, these cars can be a handful and Josh is right...SEAT TIME, SEAT TIME, SEAT TIME.

[downtime!]

I know some tuners have had good results with other injectors, but my feeling is they are more comfortable working with ID1000s. When you supposed to have it back?Maybe this weekend. I talked to Travis yesterday and they hadn't put it on the rollers yet. I told him to take his time, really just want it right this time, and I have a couple of other cars to drive, so no rush. But I am getting antsy! LOL!

[JDBishopArts]

Hopefully they can get it right. I'd love to see your car. If they are true FRPP 80lb injectors they shouldn't have a problem. The 'voltage signature' (i think they call it...or something like that) on FRPP injectors are great for tuners. But so are the ID1000's. That's why they are used so much. Some of the knock off injectors have weird spikes.

[re-rx7]

Hopefully they can get it right. I'd love to see your car. If they are true FRPP 80lb injectors they shouldn't have a problem. The 'voltage signature' (i think they call it...or something like that) on FRPP injectors are great for tuners. But so are the ID1000's. That's why they are used so much. Some of the knock off injectors have weird spikes.

ID's are very popular but are $$$$, FRPP are a great alternative.