Headed to the track tonight......

[J.Shoot]

Well, after picking up the Boss from TS a couple of weeks back we were excited about hitting the track to see what the Boss would do. We got a pair of slicks for the car to try and get the best time possible. Well, I went to change my tune on the car to go to the track and the car "locked up". We were able to get it running with some help from TS and SCT but we weren't able to run the car. So, here we are.....
We are going to try to run the car tonight. Hopefully it will run what we are hopin for......
J.Shoot

[Dominic Toretto]

Exciting, and good luck. What times are you shooting for? Trap speeds?

-Alex

[DirtyD]

Car should do 10s pretty easy I think.

Sucks you had the ECU lock you out, man. Hate it when that happens.

[re-rx7]

High 11's.

:winner_third_h4h:

[J.Shoot]

Unfortunately our local track is only 1/8 mile. Our best run so far is when the weather was cooler and we ran a 7.11 @ 99.7 mph.

We are hoping to run a 6.90 or faster, I'm putting alot of faith in the slicks.

They don't prep the track on Friday nights, so that hurts us as well, but we'll see.

J.Shoot

[Doug1227]

and...... ? :)

[undercover]

X2!

[J.Shoot]

Well the Boss did ok. We ran the following;

60'. 1/8
1.6. 7.17
1.64. 7.25
1.55. 7.11
1.56. 7.13
1.52. 7.10
1.61. 7.19

This was our first time on slicks. Looking for 6.90's and I know the car can do it, just need cooler weather I think.

J.Shoot

[re-rx7]

Well the Boss did ok. We ran the following;

60'. 1/8
1.6. 7.17
1.64. 7.25
1.55. 7.11
1.56. 7.13
1.52. 7.10
1.61. 7.19

This was our first time on slicks. Looking for 6.90's and I know the car can do it, just need cooler weather I think.

J.Shoot

Low 11 sec car. Cooler air you should get in the 10's. what were you trapping?

[musclestang89]

Well the Boss did ok. We ran the following;

60'. 1/8
1.6. 7.17
1.64. 7.25
1.55. 7.11
1.56. 7.13
1.52. 7.10
1.61. 7.19

This was our first time on slicks. Looking for 6.90's and I know the car can do it, just need cooler weather I think.

J.Shoot

nice times, some more practice and it should run 6.90 in this weather.

[J.Shoot]

Best trap was 97, most were 95

[musclestang89]

dang I figured you would be trapping more. our kb 2v would be a good race for you.

[Yagermeister]

The number 1 and 2 quickest bolt-on 5.0s (stock long block no power adder) in the country (wbt and caspergt) (both autos btw!) run the 1/8th at around 6.95 and 99mph (10.78 and 10.87 in the qtr) with only around 450hp-460hp and weighing around 3500-3600 lbs with driver so you should be able to beat that with the HP you put out (I'm assuming well over 600 with what you have.)

Here's wbt's thread: CLICK HERE (http://www.modularfords.com/threads/185818-bolt-2011-2013-mustang-gt-5-a/page8#post1837974)

Here's caspergt's thread: CLICK HERE (http://www.modularfords.com/threads/185818-Bolt-on-2011-2013-Mustang-GT-5-0-Drag-Racing-ET-List?p=1849121#post1849121)

I would say you should be able to do low 10's or even a 9.90 in the qtr as Daniel Pachar down at TSS in Orange TX has a couple supercharged GT cars (non-Boss) with your type of mods running those numbers.

[Toby]

Yeah but those are max effort cars ie full drag suspension, removed sway bars, removed weight etc. this car is full weight plus a blower kit straight off the street with nothing more then a set of rear control arms... Definately a lot left in it on a better nite. 100+ temps hurt a blower car in every aspect. Not to mention he is in Abilene which at this time of the year I bet the da is 9000+!!!! I guarantee if he comes to the metroplex he picks up a bunch of et and mph!!

Nice times!!

[Yagermeister]

I wasn't taking anything away from J.Shoots times as we all know TX is horrible in the summer.

Wbt is from San Antonio and his DA the day in the link was ~1400 so his day was not perfect. Wbt and CasperGT both have stock springs/struts/shocks. UCA and LCAs are their only suspension pieces except for the front sway bar removal. Wbt even has a roll cage in his weighing in at 75-100lbs.

You have more in it J.Shoots! Good luck!

[Toby]

Absolutely tx summers are the worst time to hit the track... Especially in his neck of the woods. Our fabricator at the shop is from there, said he would come to the metroplex and have to add over 10% to his entire be table to get it to even run worth a damn. Said he would pick up .3-.4 in et also!! Damn boosted cars haha

[Doug1227]

DA in Abilene TODAY was 4663 @ 3:45PM. That's definitely pretty shitty. I still figured it would run quicker as well. No insult.....

[Oxford14Stang]

Sweeet! Good numbers

[TrueStreetMotorSports.com]

One more thing to keep in mind is this is a procharger car with a air to air intercooler. So if you think, 100* out side temp, inter cooler after the burn out is 120-130* By the time you finish the race your at 140ish to 150ish IAT. Killing 3-5 degrees of timing worth 100+ rwhp. For all you air to water cars you don't have it quite as bad at the track. Procharger cars are much happier from a roll where air is running across the inter cooler,

[Yagermeister]

Why buy a Procharger kit dynoing at 600hp then if you only see 500hp at a drag race track?

[TrueStreetMotorSports.com]

Why buy a Procharger kit dynoing at 600hp then if you only see 500hp at a drag race track?

The kenne bell, and whipple cars will have less issue with the IAT since they are Air to water (takes more time to heat the water). With the air to water (kenne bell/whipple) they will not run as cool on the street like the Air to Air a procharger has. This is why you see a lot of turbo cars with Air to air if they are street cars but the race car Prochargers/Turbos run air to water with big coolers to pack ice in.

Prochargers will not see this much heat once the crazy 100*+ days are gone. Right not it does not take much time to heat up. Dare I say E-85 make a BIG Diffrence!!!! :hidesbehindsofa:

[Yagermeister]

Where do Vortech/Paxton's fit?

[Toby]

Why buy a Procharger kit dynoing at 600hp then if you only see 500hp at a drag race track?

Because not every person that buys a procharger, is going to drag race it.

Why do most people assume just because you are modifying your car that you are going to drag race it?

[Yagermeister]

2 out of 3 Procharged cars I know of drag race hence why I asked the question. Where do Vortech/Paxton's fit as you posted examples of Procharger, KB, etc?

[TrueStreetMotorSports.com]

2 out of 3 Procharged cars I know of drag race hence why I asked the question. Where do Vortech/Paxton's fit as you posted examples of Procharger, KB, etc?

They will have same issue as long as they have air to air intecoolers. Most of these heat issue will disappear once we get back to 70-80* track nights

[Rebelracer568]

J.shoot. i come to san angelo once or twice a month and been wanting to check out that track. Maybe we can meet up there one day. Im def no match for you car but wouldnt mind the fun.

[J.Shoot]

J.shoot. i come to san angelo once or twice a month and been wanting to check out that track. Maybe we can meet up there one day. Im def no match for you car but wouldnt mind the fun.

Holler when you come my way, would definitely try to meet up.

J.Shoot

[J.Shoot]

Just to shed some more light.
We got the Boss in October of 2013, I researched every possible power adder for months. I also called every shop I could find in Texas. Alot of research went into my decision of what to do to the car.
One of the main goals was to keep the car very streetable and where it would run on 93 octane fuel. My wife and I love driving the car.
I talked to Clint several times before we even committed to them to mod our Boss. (I'm sure he thought I was just another tire kicker, at first).
Well, after we got the mods done I got curious of what the car would run. You know what happens next.... It became an addiction, I became fixated on beating a couple of cars and a number that I wanted to get my car down to. That's why we went the direction we did. I'm sure had I told Clint up front that it was going to be a track car we would have looked at other options that might have been more suitable.
Me personally, I like the procharger, the car drives and handles great, I like the power curve and how it comes on. We have made several trips from Abilene to McKinney (250 miles approx) and it's a blast.....
Anyway, didn't mean to get off topic, just wanted to make it clear why we went the direction we did. And I'm sure the car will run better once the temps cool down.....
But by the time it cools down archery season will be here so the car will probably feel neglected for awhile..... lol.

J.Shoot

[Rebelracer568]

Holler when you come my way, would definitely try to meet up.

J.Shoot

Ill let you know, im for sure coming back august 10th back to san angelo for the weekend and labor day weekend

[Doug1227]

I've never heard someone claim that a centri was at a disadvantage to a PD due to IAT2's! Usually I hear the OPPOSITE!

[Yagermeister]

Ditto Doug...ditto

[FastFordDriver]

The 1.52 60' is real good with a manual car - I'm usually around there and dip into the high 1.4x's on occasion but it's not that easy. What was the DA when you ran? Seems like the trap speed is low but maybe you're pulling a bunch of timing in the high heat? I think you'll be in the 6's easy once you get it figured out. ... and get some better air.

Well the Boss did ok. We ran the following;

60'. 1/8
1.6. 7.17
1.64. 7.25
1.55. 7.11
1.56. 7.13
1.52. 7.10
1.61. 7.19

This was our first time on slicks. Looking for 6.90's and I know the car can do it, just need cooler weather I think.

J.Shoot

[TrueStreetMotorSports.com]

I've never heard someone claim that a centri was at a disadvantage to a PD due to IAT2's! Usually I hear the OPPOSITE!

Normal driving, hwy, stop lights I would agree. The air to air works very well at keeping cool during normal driving and stop and go traffic. But Air to air intercooler have to have air moving across it to cool. At the track sitting in line to make a pass, then doing a burn out, then stage and launch equals no air moving into the intercooler until you start moving. in 100* + days you can image how fast this happens


Air to water has water that is always moving and depending on how big your intercooler reserve tank is your IAT's might not gain more than 5-12* since it has to heat all the water.




Ditto Doug...ditto

:snoopfacepalm: lol I did not figure you would understand

Next time you go to a race track and see a race car with a turbo,Procharger, 99% of them will always have a air to water system. For one they can pack it with ice and cool IAT below out side temps so they have time to do a burnout and stage before the car starts pulling timing because of heat

[BLK2012GT]

Normal driving, hwy, stop lights I would agree. The air to air works very well at keeping cool during normal driving and stop and go traffic. But Air to air intercooler have to have air moving across it to cool. At the track sitting in line to make a pass, then doing a burn out, then stage and launch equals no air moving into the intercooler until you start moving. in 100* + days you can image how fast this happens


Air to water has water that is always moving and depending on how big your intercooler reserve tank is your IAT's might not gain more than 5-12* since it has to heat all the water.






:snoopfacepalm: lol I did not figure you would understand

Next time you go to a race track and see a race car with a turbo,Procharger, 99% of them will always have a air to water system. For one they can pack it with ice and cool IAT below out side temps so they have time to do a burnout and stage before the car starts pulling timing because of heat


WTF!?!?!?!? That makes complete sense, stop posting crazy talk true facts.

[re-rx7]

Normal driving, hwy, stop lights I would agree. The air to air works very well at keeping cool during normal driving and stop and go traffic. But Air to air intercooler have to have air moving across it to cool. At the track sitting in line to make a pass, then doing a burn out, then stage and launch equals no air moving into the intercooler until you start moving. in 100* + days you can image how fast this happens


Air to water has water that is always moving and depending on how big your intercooler reserve tank is your IAT's might not gain more than 5-12* since it has to heat all the water.






:snoopfacepalm: lol I did not figure you would understand

Next time you go to a race track and see a race car with a turbo,Procharger, 99% of them will always have a air to water system. For one they can pack it with ice and cool IAT below out side temps so they have time to do a burnout and stage before the car starts pulling timing because of heat
Tim nailed it.

[BLK2012GT]

Tim nailed it.

That's Clint

[re-rx7]

My head was in my ass lol. Duh.

[Doug1227]

YES, a centri isn't getting any cooling effect when not moving, but it's also not generating any real heat like a PD. Granted that the centri isn't cooling anything in the lanes, but neither is the PD. Fluid is circulating, but there's no air movement across the heat exchanger, so the fluid just gets hotter and hotter (heat soak). Heat soak is going to be much more prominent on a PD car than a centri. At least on the centri it starts cooling as you go down the track and you're essentially starting with ambient. On a PD, you're circulating hot ass water as you go down the track! LOL! I've had both and I think a PD makes a LOT more heat, both on the street and the track.

Edit: Obviously, a PD with an A/W with fans, huge reservoir, bag of ice, etc. will cool better, but that's not what ANY of them come with from the manufacturers, so that's a moot point. I'm talking about how they come in the kits.

[TrueStreetMotorSports.com]

At least on the centri it starts cooling as you go down the track and you're essentially starting with ambient.

B]


Not correct, when the pass/race starts you will start to get fresh air across the intercooler but you are in boost heat is even greater from that point on. There is no intercooler, watercooler on the market that will cool off to ambient temps once boost starts. Once in boost Intake air temps will continue to heat up until there is no boost present and air flow is run across the intercooler water or air to air for a giving amount of time.

[KungFuHamster]

my vortech car ET'ed and MPH'ed the same pass after pass with minimal cool down and no intercooler (on a 2V car 10 years ago). thats centrifugal efficiency.

so if the A/W is so much more efficient, then why do all the factory PD blower cars heat soak so much? the water is still circulating. but once the water heats up, then it can't absorb anymore heat. its the same as the A/A car sitting there with no air flowing over it. I watched a Cadillac CTS-V lose .4 and 7 mph due to heat soak on his 2nd pass. The car was down on power the whole time we were at the track due to heat soak. We all know this...terminators, lightnings, ZL1, etc.

The centrifugals are the more efficient blowers, and while the twin screws are more efficient than the roots and TVS blowers, they still generate more heat per lb of boost. it's always been that way.

[Doug1227]

Clint, what's your take on A/A vs. A/W as they come from the supercharger vendors? As they come in the kits?

[TrueStreetMotorSports.com]

Clint, what's your take on A/A vs. A/W as they come from the supercharger vendors? As they come in the kits?

They both have there plus and minus, But Im a big fan of the Air to air of the prochargers, IAT are at ambient when driving anything over 25-30mph (no boost)

The air to water tend to run a little warmer but not much with water taking more time to remove heat once hot. Both systems are great in the own right.

the only reason for my earlier post was for testing we have done. I was not posting a Kenne Bell vs Procharger thread. Just how in extreme heat the air to air preforms poorly when run at the track, driving through staging lanes, waiting, staging, burnout, ect. No air flow during this time means no cooling equals high IAT's.

Think of it this way, The blower is like a hair dryer. They blow HOT HOT air, you take a aluminum box and stick the hair dryer in it your temps are going to rise. Basically with a air to air this is what is happening when no air flow is present.

So with a air to water intercooler. lets say we have water running in front of the hair drier before the air can get into the box. The water is going to prolong the heat for a short while. the water will also continue to rise but at a slower rate. it will also cool at a slower rate once airflow is present. Both will be hottest by the end of the race.

Here is a air to air without air being present

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee217/1bad03cobra/15c7073d-75b8-47e2-bfef-c182cfbe1363_zps80f28cc7.jpg (http://s230.photobucket.com/user/1bad03cobra/media/15c7073d-75b8-47e2-bfef-c182cfbe1363_zps80f28cc7.jpg.html)http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee217/1bad03cobra/efa62a27-77bc-4d86-be8d-0e4c34d533e6_zpsf538c14c.jpg (http://s230.photobucket.com/user/1bad03cobra/media/efa62a27-77bc-4d86-be8d-0e4c34d533e6_zpsf538c14c.jpg.html)

Here is a air to water, just going to take more time to heat up the water

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee217/1bad03cobra/15c7073d-75b8-47e2-bfef-c182cfbe1363_zps80f28cc7.jpg (http://s230.photobucket.com/user/1bad03cobra/media/15c7073d-75b8-47e2-bfef-c182cfbe1363_zps80f28cc7.jpg.html)http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee217/1bad03cobra/460b17d0-1ec6-4877-9fd9-89ae80083204_zps92b07c9f.jpg (http://s230.photobucket.com/user/1bad03cobra/media/460b17d0-1ec6-4877-9fd9-89ae80083204_zps92b07c9f.jpg.html)http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee217/1bad03cobra/efa62a27-77bc-4d86-be8d-0e4c34d533e6_zpsf538c14c.jpg (http://s230.photobucket.com/user/1bad03cobra/media/efa62a27-77bc-4d86-be8d-0e4c34d533e6_zpsf538c14c.jpg.html)

[JDMLOL]

They both have there plus and minus, But Im a big fan of the Air to air of the prochargers, IAT are at ambient when driving anything over 25-30mph (no boost)

The air to water tend to run a little warmer but not much with water taking more time to remove heat once hot. Both systems are great in the own right.

the only reason for my earlier post was for testing we have done. I was not posting a Kenne Bell vs Procharger thread. Just how in extreme heat the air to air preforms poorly when run at the track, driving through staging lanes, waiting, staging, burnout, ect. No air flow during this time means no cooling equals high IAT's.

Think of it this way, The blower is like a hair dryer. They blow HOT HOT air, you take a aluminum box and stick the hair dryer in it your temps are going to rise. Basically with a air to air this is what is happening when no air flow is present.

So with a air to water intercooler. lets say we have water running in front of the hair drier before the air can get into the box. The water is going to prolong the heat for a short while. the water will also continue to rise but at a slower rate. it will also cool at a slower rate once airflow is present. Both will be hottest by the end of the race...


Great analogy. This may be a stupid question or idea. Do they make air to air with e-fans to move air through them while you're parked, doing burnouts, etc..

[TrueStreetMotorSports.com]

Great analogy. This may be a stupid question or idea. Do they make air to air with e-fans to move air through them while you're parked, doing burnouts, etc..

this is a great idea and does work well. But the down side to having fans there is they move air effectively up to 35-45mph, after that they are a restriction and in the way of faster speeds. If the car was going to be a track car this would help on both air to air and air to water.

this also helps a ton!!!

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee217/1bad03cobra/nitrousintercooler_zps247f7501.jpg (http://s230.photobucket.com/user/1bad03cobra/media/nitrousintercooler_zps247f7501.jpg.html)

[Toby]

The advantage of the air to water at the track is the ability to put ice in the reservoir an get the iat below ambient. Air to air you cannot do that without an inter cooler sprayer.

[DirtyD]

Water also dissipates heat faster than ambient air. Another reason why ATW works so well.

A fan setup would be sweet, but you would either have to switch the setup to turn it on, or find a way to have it cut off at a certain MPH and let them free spin.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

[Doug1227]

This was kinda my point. An A/W has the ABILITY to cool better if things are modified or improved. The A/W you see on a drag only car looks NOTHING like what's being packaged with most PD supercharger kits. Stock for stock, I don't think there's much difference and I might even give the edge to the A/A. But the A/W has potential to do much better. I'm working on those modifications right now! LOL! I'm not taking any of this as a KB vs Procharger debate. Just sharing notes and a friendly discussion.

Edit: BTW, my intercooler fluid temps were 64* last night when the temps outside were 96* and I wasn't using ice or fans! :)

The advantage of the air to water at the track is the ability to put ice in the reservoir an get the iat below ambient. Air to air you cannot do that without an inter cooler sprayer.

[TrueStreetMotorSports.com]

The advantage of the air to water at the track is the ability to put ice in the reservoir an get the iat below ambient. Air to air you cannot do that without an inter cooler sprayer.

this is a huge advantage for the race track.