E85 and the new 5.0

[GTRacerX]

What all is involved in changing over to E85 on the coyote motors. I know a tune would be required, but what about the fuel lines and injectors etc.?

[Midnight11]

injectors and tune. ill have it in a couple weeks just got the injectors. i wouldnt do it if its your daily though...
http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss45/Bluedevil0408/null-1.jpg

[GTRacerX]

Burns colder but faster right?

[Midnight11]

30% more power but burns faster. and yes its colder so you wont denotate. also dont think there are any stations in arlington...

[downtime!]

Check Kroger. Almost all Kroger stations carry the corn.

[DirtyD]

Hardly any of the Arlington ones do. I think Mansfield has one or two

[JDMLOL]

Check Kroger. Almost all Kroger stations carry the corn.

This.

[downtime!]

That's strange, if I use my locator app, it only returns Kroger stations. I just assumed they all carried it.

[Zeek]

30% more power but burns faster. and yes its colder so you wont denotate. also dont think there are any stations in arlington...

Actually its more like 4-5% more HP and 20-30% more fuel. Also burns slower due to the ethanol. Its around 104-106 octane.

[Midnight11]

Actually its more like 4-5% more HP and 20-30% more fuel. Also burns slower due to the ethanol. Its around 104-106 octane.

sorry i quoted boosted numbers. but it is more than 4-5%

[Zeek]

N/A your only gonna get around 15-30 HP....At your HP and 5% that's 21hp. I bet when you go e85 you won't go over 455hp might get 460

[GTRacerX]

Kroger in Mansfield was the closest location
I could find close to me. So is it ok to run E85 if you're not boosted?

[DirtyD]

Kroger in Mansfield was the closest location
I could find close to me. So is it ok to run E85 if you're not boosted?

Yes, just decrease in your MPG if that is something you try and keep decent.

[Midnight11]

N/A your only gonna get around 15-30 HP....At your HP and 5% that's 21hp. I bet when you go e85 you won't go over 455hp might get 460

Who said I'm just trying to add e85? And cool ill still take 460 just fine

[Dark Pony]

I got 12mpg on E85, but if its bought cheap enough it's actually a wash.

[rriddle3]

So does anybody know the facts behind this statement in the owner's manual?

Use only UNLEADED fuel or UNLEADED fuel blended with a maximum
of 10% ethanol. Do not use fuel ethanol (E85), diesel, methanol, leaded
fuel or any other fuel. The use of leaded fuel is prohibited by law and
could damage your vehicle.
Your vehicle was not designed to use fuel or fuel additives with metallic
compounds, including manganese-based additives.
Note: Use of any fuel other than those recommended may cause
powertrain damage, a loss of vehicle performance, and repairs may not
be covered under warranty.

[Midnight11]

thats bc you would be on the stock tune....

[GTRacerX]

I got 12mpg on E85, but if its bought cheap enough it's actually a wash.

What's the average price for a gallon of E85 around here?

[GTRacerX]

thats bc you would be on the stock tune....

Who does a good E85 Tune around here?

[DirtyD]

E85 usually is about $0.60/gal cheaper, and typically hovers just under $3.00/gal.

Kevin Dunn (04sleeper) does a great job for e85 tunes, and tunes in general.

[JDMLOL]

thats bc you would be on the stock tune....

And stock injectors.

[my95z28]

And rubber fuel lines, which Ethanol breaks down over time.

[re-rx7]

And rubber fuel lines, which Ethanol breaks down over time.

Very true. Its doesnt take long either. Still dont understand why ford didnt make these flex fuel which would have been awesome!

[BLK2012GT]

E85 NA isn't worth the time and money. Boosted is a different story.

[Oxford14Stang]

Im not too sure the HP gains is worth the poor fuel economy . Nick did say not a hood idea for a daily though.

[Midnight11]

And rubber fuel lines, which Ethanol breaks down over time.

just talked to kevin all our fuel lines are metal except for one little rubber section running to the fuel rails...

[Rebelracer568]

The hp gains don't make it worth the fuel economy loss. If its just a weekender car then why not. But not on a daily in my opinion.

I agree wish ford made these cars flex fuel. Would make everything more interesting

[GTRacerX]

The hp gains don't make it worth the fuel economy loss. If its just a weekender car then why not. But not on a daily in my opinion.

I agree wish ford made these cars flex fuel. Would make everything more interesting

I'm sure Ford will do something like that for the 2015 Mustang.

[FastFordDriver]

E85 NA isn't worth the time and money. Boosted is a different story.

I agree with that BLK2012GT.

I run E85 on my boosted 3v and it's like magic gofast potion but n/a might not be worth it. Biggest problem with E85 is availability. I live near a Kroger that sells it but most Krogers don't sell it.

[04sleeper]

Some bad information in here. Just figure I would clear a few things up. E85 is perfectly fine with the stock lines. It will not degrade the small amount of rubber at all.

You WILL gain with E85. Even if it is only a few HP, the safety margin alone and not being on the verge of detonation is worth it IMO. It was the first mod I did to my car.

With these newer High Compression motors, high octane and good fuel is essential for longevity! Especially once tuned and pushing more timing than the factory has designed it for. E85 is a safeguard against detonation. No #8 failures here!

[Rebelracer568]

What's the cost to convert to e85

[Zeek]

$250 for 47# injectors and whatever your tuner charges

[Rebelracer568]

That's not bad. Something to think about for future.

[Oxford14Stang]

Yeah, since it makes it "safer" when I buy a daily, I will highly consider it. I've heard race gas, like 103 is bad for these cars. Didn't seem right, anything on this?

[DirtyD]

When I pick up a daily, my car will for sure be getting the corn conversion.

[03MachMe]

Once there are more stations I might think about it and only if I will have the ability to switch back and forth. I don't want to be driving and get stranded because there is no corn close. And prolly only once I have boost

[re-rx7]

Some bad information in here. Just figure I would clear a few things up. E85 is perfectly fine with the stock lines. It will not degrade the small amount of rubber at all.

You WILL gain with E85. Even if it is only a few HP, the safety margin alone and not being on the verge of detonation is worth it IMO. It was the first mod I did to my car.

With these newer High Compression motors, high octane and good fuel is essential for longevity! Especially once tuned and pushing more timing than the factory has designed it for. E85 is a safeguard against detonation. No #8 failures here!

If yor even close to detonation or experiencing it on 93 then you need a new tuner.

[Grandpa]

If yor even close to detonation or experiencing it on 93 then you need a new tuner.

With these high compression motors all it takes is a bad tank of gas which is much easier to get in DFW than you think. Kevin has forgotten more about tuning than you know. When he offers input, you should listen.

[DirtyD]

I haven't yet heard of a single E85 station here in DFW that had anything under E85 that measured under E80. But like Midnight said, most of the station will exceed E85, since there could be some deep shit go down by someone losing their car by a tank of E85 that doesn't pass the standards of minimum 85% volume +/- some percentage.

[Bearded Banger]

E85 is liquid gold. I assure you Kevin (04 Sleeper) knows what he's talking about.
My 04 cobra is on corn, and The boss is next.

[Rebelracer568]

Can you run racing fuel in these cars to help eliminate the detonation?

[BLK2012GT]

I'm switching back to pump gas and adding torco to mine. My mpg sucked cause of e85. Even though I don't drive it that much, going to lewisville from frisco and back I use 1/4 of a tank. That's BS. Plus the drivability on the car sucked with e85. So I don't know if changing to 13:1 compression had anything to do with the drivability issue but I will not be running e85 again.

[Bearded Banger]

Being able to get 105 octane at the pump for the cost compared to a race gas cost is a huge factor.
You get nearly all the benefits for a hell of a lot cheaper. On top of that its more available.
No goes E85 for the mpgs. That's a well known fact. I wanted to protection level it offers. I wouldn't throw your drivo issues at e85 and walk away. You may have issues on a 93/torco blend too. How are you going to consistently get the octane rating your engine needs blending torco and 93? Serious question. Curious as to what your plan is. 10 gallons one can situation? I don't trust that.

[re-rx7]

Being able to get 105 octane at the pump for the cost compared to a race gas cost is a huge factor.
You get nearly all the benefits for a hell of a lot cheaper. On top of that its more available.
No goes E85 for the mpgs. That's a well known fact. I wanted to protection level it offers. I wouldn't throw your drivo issues at e85 and walk away. You may have issues on a 93/torco blend too. How are you going to consistently get the octane rating your engine needs blending torco and 93? Serious question. Curious as to what your plan is. 10 gallons one can situation? I don't trust that.

The same goes for E85 you really never know if that is really E85. Its hit and miss. When I had my rx7 I premixed. Oil and that is and had a pretty gd ratio worked out.:throw:

[Bearded Banger]

The same goes for E85 you really never know if that is really E85. Its hit and miss. When I had my rx7 I premixed. Oil and that is and had a pretty gd ratio worked out.:throw:

I have a test kit. I know exactly what I get.

[DirtyD]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the thing about pump gas is that is can vary in octane more than E85 can, and can also have a crap load of trash in it depending on station. E85 tolerances are a lot more strict it seems.

[Grandpa]

I'm not an E85 guy.

For the money, it's hard to beat E85 as a high-octane fuel. And that doesn't even factor in the inherent cooler operating temps and cylinder temps from running it as compared to race fuel. Those 9- and 8-second cars are drivable on the street. Once you get into the 7- and 6-second realm, there is no longer a pretense that the car will be driven on the street. So on a car like that, the compression goes up, the boost goes up, the timing gets aggressive, and you run a dedicated race fuel.

I'm sorry to hear you're disappointed in the mileage, but I think your 13:1 engine is going to have a helluva time trying to run on pump gas even with the computer doing all its cam timing, fuel trim, and spark advance tricks to keep detonation in check.



Being able to get 105 octane at the pump for the cost compared to a race gas cost is a huge factor.
You get nearly all the benefits for a hell of a lot cheaper. On top of that its more available.
No goes E85 for the mpgs. That's a well known fact. I wanted to protection level it offers. I wouldn't throw your drivo issues at e85 and walk away. You may have issues on a 93/torco blend too. How are you going to consistently get the octane rating your engine needs blending torco and 93? Serious question. Curious as to what your plan is. 10 gallons one can situation? I don't trust that.

Very solid points, fellas.

[BLK2012GT]

I tried it so I can hate on it. It didn't work out for me. Hopefully this will. So you can't say I didn't try e85.

[Bearded Banger]

I tried it so I can hate on it. It didn't work out for me. Hopefully this will. So you can't say I didn't try e85.

I also did the torco thing and hated it. I really don't care what anybody runs in their cars. E85 has worked out well for me and I will staying with it. If all the pieces are in place, setup properly, and tuned properly its the best bang for buck IMO.

[Grandpa]

I also did the torco thing and hated it. I really don't care what anybody runs in their cars. E85 has worked out well for me and I will staying with it. If all the pieces are in place, setup properly, and tuned properly its the best bang for buck IMO.

My next step will be longtubes and a E85 tune. Then calling out Nick to lose some more races to him. lol.

[DirtyD]

My next step will be longtubes and a E85 tune. Then calling out Nick to lose some more races to him. lol.
:popcorn:

[04sleeper]

I'm switching back to pump gas and adding torco to mine. My mpg sucked cause of e85. Even though I don't drive it that much, going to lewisville from frisco and back I use 1/4 of a tank. That's BS. Plus the drivability on the car sucked with e85. So I don't know if changing to 13:1 compression had anything to do with the drivability issue but I will not be running e85 again.
Good! Just leaves more for us!

And if e85 is soooooooo great how come none of the true race cars run it? Jus wondering.
Because most sanctioning bodies don't allow it. They consider it cheating.

I did pro e85 and they run 8's and 9's. still no 6's or 7's I didn't do a complete search but people been doing that shit for years on race gas. So nothing special. I still don't see how e85 is so much better then everything else. Sounds like you e85 guys are turning into the "new" LS1 guys.
They have been doing that shit for years on E85 as well.

Here's one of my good friends street car.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8WTHrojnms

Try this on Torco!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpO8w2X15zU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpO8w2X15zU)

The 275x guys probably don't use it because their motors are built to work most efficient and most powerful off pure race gas and boost than anything else.

That would honestly be a question for Clint as to why they don't run it. Plus E85 only gives around 105 octane, and those guys are wanting like 120.
No. It's because most races won't allow it.

The same goes for E85 you really never know if that is really E85. Its hit and miss. When I had my rx7 I premixed. Oil and that is and had a pretty gd ratio worked out.:throw:
Doesn't matter even if it were E70. It will still make more power and be more consistent.

BTW: I wouldn't run Torco in my lawnmower!

Unless you want your heads to look like this from all the MMT.
http://www.mickandsarah.com/PGallery/Refresh-Rebuild-12-2008/images/img_2781.jpg


Or your plugs to look like this. :wtf:

http://www.classictruckshop.com/clubs/earlyburbs/projects/spark/mmtfoul.jpg

[Bearded Banger]

Lol, and Kevin wins again.

[BLK2012GT]

So every car looks like that or that happen to one car and they happen to run torco. If that happens to everyone then wouldn't they be out of business and no performance shop would sell it?

[DirtyD]

No. It's because most races won't allow it.

Or that too. LOL

[Grandpa]

So every car looks like that or that happen to one car and they happen to run torco. If that happens to everyone then wouldn't they be out of business and no performance shop would sell it?

Not really, because it's an after thought for most people. If you run Torco, your motor will look like that in time. It's a by-product of Torco.

[Bearded Banger]

So every car looks like that or that happen to one car and they happen to run torco. If that happens to everyone then wouldn't they be out of business and no performance shop would sell it?

Exactly what my plugs looked like when I mixed. Maybe not quite that bad, but pretty much. I had too at the time. No other choice.

[04sleeper]

So every car looks like that or that happen to one car and they happen to run torco. If that happens to everyone then wouldn't they be out of business and no performance shop would sell it?
Every car will look like that with prolonged use of Torco. This is nothing new. It will turn your plugs, valves, heads and exhaust brown.

Over time, the MMT will build up in the cylinders and could lead to "Hot Spots" if and when Torco is not used.

It won't hurt my feelings if you don't want to run E85. I just want to help you understand there are drawbacks with anything.

[BLK2012GT]

Right and I appreciate everyone's input. I'm new to the e85 and running torco stuff to. I just want what's best for my engine and won't give me any problems. I tried the e85 and it was a problem. I'm going this route now and if I don't like it for whatever reason then I guess I have no choice then to switch back.

[Grandpa]

Right and I appreciate everyone's input. I'm new to the e85 and running torco stuff to. I just want what's best for my engine and won't give me any problems. I tried the e85 and it was a problem. I'm going this route now and if I don't like it for whatever reason then I guess I have no choice then to switch back.

On Torco, I suggest changing your plugs and oil often(more so than usual). Especially after nights at the track where you are spraying it a lot. Torco was all the rage back when the Terminators first came out. I had a couple of Terminator friends who will go unnamed (haha!) that used Torco so much that one blew a couple of motors and another one who had a plug seize up in the head due to it being so corroded from not changing them often enough on Torco.

[STROKD]

I'm not just running pump gas. I'm adding torco to it.

I have a couple 5 gallon pails of Torco Id sell if interested. Wont be using it in either of the Stangs.

[BLK2012GT]

I have a couple 5 gallon pails of Torco Id sell if interested. Wont be using it in either of the Stangs.

How much? And why aren't you using it?

[46Tbird]

It won't hurt my feelings if you don't want to run E85. I just want to help you understand there are drawbacks with anything.

Exactly.

You gotta change the oil a lot on E85 too, due to significant water absorption. I wouldn't go much further than 2k miles myself, but I'm sure the E85 pros will chime in on their thoughts as well.

This is a crankcase catch can after 100 miles of running E85 on a boosted Evo:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5262/5699626889_7431c7d1c9_z.jpg

[46Tbird]

Every fuel option has upsides and downsides. E85 is an awesome alternative for cars that need a high octane rating and some street use. It has some maintenance issues and it's hard on fuel systems, although the '11+ Mustangs don't seem to have an issue with it.

I never like mixing fuels, not because it's going to mess up some secret 'formula' for maximum performance, but because it's just a pain in the fucking ass. Driving to the gas station, putting some 93 in the car, then going back home and putting the right amount of 110 in it... think I'll pass.

[Grandpa]

Every fuel option has upsides and downsides. E85 is an awesome alternative for cars that need a high octane rating and some street use. It has some maintenance issues and it's hard on fuel systems, although the '11+ Mustangs don't seem to have an issue with it.

I never like mixing fuels, not because it's going to mess up some secret 'formula' for maximum performance, but because it's just a pain in the fucking ass. Driving to the gas station, putting some 93 in the car, then going back home and putting the right amount of 110 in it... think I'll pass.

I agree completely. If my car was a daily, I'd leave it on 93 for sure. And really, if someone is looking for a hassle free set up then a full out build car probably isn't for them anyways or at the most going up to the point where its as far as you go on 93 octane.

However, if you're looking at building a monster, there is always going to be some extra work and hoops to jump through. You gotta pay to play!

[STROKD]

How much? And why aren't you using it?

dont need it, cars make good pwr on pump (600 for the slow one and bout double that for the less slow one)... dont need it anymore.

[Doug1227]

I'll just roll with 93 and throw some race gas in at the track when I'm beating on it.....

[46Tbird]

Do any of those 900 rwhp has 13:1 compression. I bet all of them are boosted. Like I said boosted and low compression cars has great success and worth the e85. NA and high compression is a different story.

So I am curious...

Jeff, besides fuel mileage (which surely you know about before running it) what makes you think E85 "didn't work" for you? Your car seems like a perfect candidate for it. Are you disappointed with your numbers? Are the numbers better with race fuel? Since I'm not "in the loop" with the current status of everyone's car I have no idea why you're so anti-E85.

I filled my mustang with e85 and ran like shit. Convince me it's the best stuff ever.

So the tune was a problem? Seems like maybe you should consider having it tuned by someone else, just to see if there is a difference. The fuel was certainly not a problem - there are E85 and flex fuel vehicles in use all over the country that don't have drivability problems.

[BLK2012GT]

So I am curious...

Jeff, besides fuel mileage (which surely you know about before running it) what makes you think E85 "didn't work" for you? Your car seems like a perfect candidate for it. Are you disappointed with your numbers? Are the numbers better with race fuel? Since I'm not "in the loop" with the current status of everyone's car I have no idea why you're so anti-E85.

I knew about the mileage but it dropped a lot more then expected. And the idle sucked on it. It die on me a lot which before with cams and pump gas it never did. If I get below a 1/4 of a tank it felt like my engine was starving and it would die on me EVERY TIME I came to a stop. So it might be just my build I don't know but people I have talk to and TS has talk to, no one has had any luck with e85 and bump compression or my kind of build.

[46Tbird]

I knew about the mileage but it dropped a lot more then expected. And the idle sucked on it. It die on me a lot which before with cams and pump gas it never did. If I get below a 1/4 of a tank it felt like my engine was starving and it would die on me EVERY TIME I came to a stop. So it might be just my build I don't know but people I have talk to and TS has talk to, no one has had any luck with e85 and bump compression or my kind of build.

Bad idle and dying when coming to a stop is not an E85 issue. Is someone working on getting the pump gas / race gas tune done? I'm interested in knowing the numbers and how much the drivability improves.

[BLK2012GT]

Bad idle and dying when coming to a stop is not an E85 issue. Is someone working on getting the pump gas / race gas tune done? I'm interested in knowing the numbers and how much the drivability improves.

Yes and should have numbers by this end of this week.

[StormTrooper]

Ever had rice pudding, that shit is nasty?

[GTRacerX]

What all is involved in changing over to E85 on the coyote motors. I know a tune would be required, but what about the fuel lines and injectors etc.?

Thanks for answering my question everyone ;)

[blownaltered]

Thanks for answering my question everyone ;)

from what I gather injectors and a tune. The lines are fine. But I don't have a coyote so if you really want to know pm 04sleeper

[DirtyD]

Thanks for answering my question everyone ;)

Minimum 47# injectors and a tune. Talk with 04sleeper. But as its said before, for a daily driver it isn't the smartest move if you are worried about economy.

[DirtyD]

Yes I had two tuners tune my car and it still continue to run crappy. I called different shops they done somewhat similar builds and TS did the same and none of them had luck on e85. So no I didn't just throw in the towel cause I wanted my car to be on e85 from the get go but it didn't work out.

I was asking that as a serious question, because I wasn't aware what other options your had looked into. So I will believe you on that.

[BLK2012GT]

I was asking that as a serious question, because I wasn't aware what other options your had looked into. So I will believe you on that.

I had one of the best tuners in the world (at least thats what everyone says) in Mike Wilson to look at it and it still didn't run right.

[blownaltered]

I had one of the best tuners in the world (at least thats what everyone says) in Mike Wilson to look at it and it still didn't run right.

I will say that I've known Mike for years and he fixes what most others in town can't get right, so if Mike couldn't get it, it was most likely not in the tune. Now that doesn't mean it couldn't have been mechanical in nature

[BLK2012GT]

I will say that I've known Mike for years and he fixes what most others in town can't get right, so if Mike couldn't get it, it was most likely not in the tune. Now that doesn't mean it couldn't have been mechanical in nature

Thank you. That is all I've been saying.

[Midnight11]

e85 info only. this will stay clean

[Bearded Banger]

E85 is liquid gold.

[blownaltered]

Thank you. That is all I've been saying.

I think the point others were trying to make is it might have been a mechanical issue or a tune issue. I will stand behind Mike Wilson's tuning any day of the week. But you could have had a mechanical issue, the only reason I would think that is you said it got worse the lower the gas tank got. That wouldn't be in the tune that would be mechanical.

[TrueStreetTim]

I think the point others were trying to make is it might have been a mechanical issue or a tune issue. I will stand behind Mike Wilson's tuning any day of the week. But you could have had a mechanical issue, the only reason I would think that is you said it got worse the lower the gas tank got. That wouldn't be in the tune that would be mechanical.

The car did suffer from a faulty O2 that was loading the car up with fuel. But around that time, Jeff was not on board with the planning it would take for commuting, attending events, and the spontaneous trips from one location to the other that E85 requires. Therefore; we moved on to the nitrous part of the build which is where we are now. And for the record; we wanted to see what the car was capable of at the time and switched to the stock wheels. Why.....because other builds reporting 500wp were also on stock wheels.

To the OP:

You pretty much know the answer to your question by now as far as what is required. As for expectations be it yourself or others, E85 on a stock/bolt-on Coyote is as feasible as you want to make it. If you can run it without commuting worries, or frustrate you in any way, great! But a rough 33% loss in an already tiny tank poses problems for many. As for power; It is percentage based but with no real mathematical certainty. In our experience, the stock heads are well designed and their flow rate is near maxed during the tuning process....which limits the amount of timing the car can see. E85 alone can't change that fact. So IMO, if your staying bolt-on and want to squeeze every HP out that you can, or you simply want a safety modifier, then E85 is for you. For straight power gains I'd seek something else.

[DirtyD]

The car did suffer from a faulty O2 that was loading the car up with fuel. But around that time, Jeff was not on board with the planning it would take for commuting, attending events, and the spontaneous trips from one location to the other that E85 requires. Therefore; we moved on to the nitrous part of the build which is where we are now. And for the record; we wanted to see what the car was capable of at the time and switched to the stock wheels. Why.....because other builds reporting 500wp were also on stock wheels.

To the OP:

You pretty much know the answer to your question by now as far as what is required. As for expectations be it yourself or others, E85 on a stock/bolt-on Coyote is as feasible as you want to make it. If you can run it without commuting worries, or frustrate you in any way, great! But a rough 33% loss in an already tiny tank poses problems for many. As for power; It is percentage based but with no real mathematical certainty. In our experience, the stock heads are well designed and their flow rate is near maxed during the tuning process....which limits the amount of timing the car can see. E85 alone can't change that fact. So IMO, if your staying bolt-on and want to squeeze every HP out that you can, or you simply want a safety modifier, then E85 is for you. For straight power gains I'd seek something else.

:bowdown:

[Grandpa]

The car did suffer from a faulty O2 that was loading the car up with fuel. But around that time, Jeff was not on board with the planning it would take for commuting, attending events, and the spontaneous trips from one location to the other that E85 requires. Therefore; we moved on to the nitrous part of the build which is where we are now. And for the record; we wanted to see what the car was capable of at the time and switched to the stock wheels. Why.....because other builds reporting 500wp were also on stock wheels.

To the OP:

You pretty much know the answer to your question by now as far as what is required. As for expectations be it yourself or others, E85 on a stock/bolt-on Coyote is as feasible as you want to make it. If you can run it without commuting worries, or frustrate you in any way, great! But a rough 33% loss in an already tiny tank poses problems for many. As for power; It is percentage based but with no real mathematical certainty. In our experience, the stock heads are well designed and their flow rate is near maxed during the tuning process....which limits the amount of timing the car can see. E85 alone can't change that fact. So IMO, if your staying bolt-on and want to squeeze every HP out that you can, or you simply want a safety modifier, then E85 is for you. For straight power gains I'd seek something else.

Solid post.


Big builds require a solid plan. They are also rarely fun to do. I hope it works out for you Jeff and you are satisfied with it at the end of it all.