Stock Internals and MT82 limits, FI preference

[KnightRider5.0]

I hope this hasn't been posted before, but as y'all have seen with other posts. I'm looking into forced induction for my 2012 5.0 with the MT82. I've been told by a few friends till they where blue in the face that my stock internals and transmission couldn't handle over 550 horse power safely. I was also told if I did I would shave significant life off of my engine and drive train. What's the truth and reality of it, because I know hundreds of people are running 600 hp cars with no problems. Last question and its just to see. Would you pick a root supercharger, centrifugal supercharger or turbo?

[downtime!]

I'm partial to roots style, Kenne Bell being what I run on mine. I'm at 625 hp, have been beating on it pretty good since Christmas, and so far so good. Have put about 12,000 miles on her since then, including a 3000 road trip last week to Ohio for a drag race. Ran 10.85 @ 130, got 31 mpg avg on the whole trip.

My MT82 has seen literally hundreds of launches, started the China Whine thing 2 years ago in Maryland, and has progressively gotten quieter as time has gone by. Not saying it's my favorite transmission by any means, but it has held up pretty damn well.

The secret to keeping these things alive above 600 hp is all in the tune, get a good one and then don't fuck with it (some people are tweakers, and just can't leave shit alone), and then drive it like you want it to stick around for a while. You can beat on them pretty regularly, but don't treat it like a race car. Be smart and it will reward you for a good long time.

[KnightRider5.0]

I'm partial to roots style, Kenne Bell being what I run on mine. I'm at 625 hp, have been beating on it pretty good since Christmas, and so far so good. Have put about 12,000 miles on her since then, including a 3000 road trip last week to Ohio for a drag race. Ran 10.85 @ 130, got 31 mpg avg on the whole trip.

My MT82 has seen literally hundreds of launches, started the China Whine thing 2 years ago in Maryland, and has progressively gotten quieter as time has gone by. Not saying it's my favorite transmission by any means, but it has held up pretty damn well.

The secret to keeping these things alive above 600 hp is all in the tune, get a good one and then don't fuck with it (some people are tweakers, and just can't leave shit alone), and then drive it like you want it to stick around for a while. You can beat on them pretty regularly, but don't treat it like a race car. Be smart and it will reward you for a good long time.

Good food for thought, I appreciate it.

[GTRacerX]

I'm not and expert by any means but a lot from what I have heard on other forums is that the coyote motor can handle 600-650 rwhp, BUT that is gonna be all based on your driving habits....so if your flooring it to pick up a gallon of milk the block probably won't last that long. As far as the stock tranny I don't know it's limits. As for your choice in FI I have a 2002 single turbo GT and I love it! I have driven both roots and centri style supercharged mustangs and I just love the feel as efficiency of a turbo setup.

[KnightRider5.0]

I'm not and expert by any means but a lot from what I have heard on other forums is that the coyote motor can handle 600-650 rwhp, BUT that is gonna be all based on your driving habits....so if your flooring it to pick up a gallon of milk the block probably won't last that long. As far as the stock tranny I don't know it's limits. As for your choice in FI I have a 2002 single turbo GT and I love it! I have driven both roots and centri style supercharged mustangs and I just love the feel as efficiency of a turbo setup.

Thanks for the input, my car gets "driven" but not beat on. I baby her till she warms up then every once in a while I floor it threw a couple gears smile and let off. Usually getting on the highway. I'm pretty much looking into FI to have the horsepower and enjoy it. My car will never be a track car.

[downtime!]

Just a little more food for thought, but there are quite a few stock internal 5.0's running around the area that make over 700, and have been for a while. They're all on E85, seems to give a little extra cushion on the bottom end limits, at least with a decently safe tune.

[GTRacerX]

Thanks for the input, my car gets "driven" but not beat on. I baby her till she warms up then every once in a while I floor it threw a couple gears smile and let off. Usually getting on the highway. I'm pretty much looking into FI to have the horsepower and enjoy it. My car will never be a track car.
With that said I would think the 600-650 rwhp range would be just fine. But note that a supercharger roots or centrifugal is always "on" while a turbo is only "working" when you're in the set rpm level.
Just a little more food for thought, but there are quite a few stock internal 5.0's running around the area that make over 700, and have been for a while. They're all on E85, seems to give a little extra cushion on the bottom end limits, at least with a decently safe tune.
Agreed always gonna run a little cooler i.e. less chance of detenation running E85

[Luke]

I want boost :hail:

[5PointSlow]

my car makes 669/581 to the tires with 8.5psi full exhaust and E85. My MT82 is holding up just fine. car is still on the stock clutch as well. been 10.88@134 on street tires. I love the corn lol car has been this way for 12k miles now.

[re-rx7]

I'm partial to roots style, Kenne Bell being what I run on mine. I'm at 625 hp, have been beating on it pretty good since Christmas, and so far so good. Have put about 12,000 miles on her since then, including a 3000 road trip last week to Ohio for a drag race. Ran 10.85 @ 130, got 31 mpg avg on the whole trip.

My MT82 has seen literally hundreds of launches, started the China Whine thing 2 years ago in Maryland, and has progressively gotten quieter as time has gone by. Not saying it's my favorite transmission by any means, but it has held up pretty damn well.

The secret to keeping these things alive above 600 hp is all in the tune, get a good one and then don't fuck with it (some people are tweakers, and just can't leave shit alone), and then drive it like you want it to stick around for a while. You can beat on them pretty regularly, but don't treat it like a race car. Be smart and it will reward you for a good long time.
Great post.

[Dan12GT]

It's definitely going to be all with the tune and your driving habits.

When I have the money to retire my Mustang as my daily and get a beater I will be going the FI route too. I think the safest approach would be to go with a centrifugal blower on lower boost. Its not as much of a torque shock to the internals and tranny and would have the potential to hold up in the long run better. You just have to come to the realization that on a stock motor you aren't going to be the fastest / most power mustang on the street when comparing to those with built motors but it will still be damn fun so long as you take care of the car.

Like Downtime mentioned, you have to be respectful of what you have and drive it accordingly.

[Grandpa]

Making a car live for a long time comes down to a few things, proper maintence, not beating the snot out of it at every opportunity and the tune itself. A bad tune can kill the most badass super built racecar motors just as easily as a stock motor. A rough driver can also cause alot of damage with constant abuse.

When talking about stress on engine/drivetrain components and which type of boost is the best for it, there is no doubt what so ever that turbos are best way to go. It's the most efficient setup and least stressful because it's making power on already spent energy, there is no belts creating parasitic load etc.

Roots style blowers and centri blowers are stressful on a motor putting a lot of heat into a motor, a blower that takes power from the motor in order to turn it to make boost and also puts a lot of stress on the front of the crank pulling on it all the time. The smaller the pulley, the tighter the belt it requires therefor putting even more stress on the crank.

Example, my buddy Jeremy runs a 3.4 Whipple on his Cobra with a fully built motor including a forged crank and still managed to snap off the crank snout with the balancer still attached right off the front of the block. So, depending on what set up you are running, a stock 5.0 crank is no match for a big roots style blower if you are going to beat on it all the time and hopefully you don't trash the block in the process.

Turbos have none of those issues. It makes power from already used energy, no belts stealing power from the motor. Does not shock the motor/drivetrain as violently as blowers because the power comes in more linear rather than when you downshift a blower car and BOOM, it hits hard pulling on the rotating assembly instantly. Over time, it causes quite abit of stress and damage even to the most civlized drivers.

Yes, you can make a car live a long time, but it's all in how you treat it. Which is why you hear so many varying stories about a car breaking at 550rw or 750rw. Chances are those drivers treat their cars very differently or one had a better tune than the other.

[KnightRider5.0]

Making a car live for a long time comes down to a few things, proper maintence, not beating the snot out of it at every opportunity and the tune itself. A bad tune can kill the most badass super built racecar motors just as easily as a stock motor. A rough driver can also cause alot of damage with constant abuse.

When talking about stress on engine/drivetrain components and which type of boost is the best for it, there is no doubt what so ever that turbos are best way to go. It's the most efficient setup and least stressful because it's making power on already spent energy, there is no belts creating parasitic load etc.

Roots style blowers and centri blowers are stressful on a motor putting a lot of heat into a motor, a blower that takes power from the motor in order to turn it to make boost and also puts a lot of stress on the front of the crank pulling on it all the time. The smaller the pulley, the tighter the belt it requires therefor putting even more stress on the crank.

Example, my buddy Jeremy runs a 3.4 Whipple on his Cobra with a fully built motor including a forged crank and still managed to snap off the crank snout with the balancer still attached right off the front of the block. So, depending on what set up you are running, a stock 5.0 crank is no match for a big roots style blower if you are going to beat on it all the time and hopefully you don't trash the block in the process.

Turbos have none of those issues. It makes power from already used energy, no belts stealing power from the motor. Does not shock the motor/drivetrain as violently as blowers because the power comes in more linear rather than when you downshift a blower car and BOOM, it hits hard pulling on the rotating assembly instantly. Over time, it causes quite abit of stress and damage even to the most civlized drivers.

Yes, you can make a car live a long time, but it's all in how you treat it. Which is why you hear so many varying stories about a car breaking at 550rw or 750rw. Chances are those drivers treat their cars very differently or one had a better tune than the other.

Alot of good information the thing that has me worried is a few guys say "turbos eat clutches" and "turbo cars are always broke for tuning issues." I'd like to do a turbo set the tune and go. Just worried once I make the FI jump ill just be poring money into a turbo car to keep it going faithfully.

[Grandpa]

Alot of good information the thing that has me worried is a few guys say "turbos eat clutches" and "turbo cars are always broke for tuning issues." I'd like to do a turbo set the tune and go. Just worried once I make the FI jump ill just be poring money into a turbo car to keep it going faithfully.

Turbo cars tend to be broke more often for some people because they are very easy to get greedy with. More power is as simple as a button push away. Also, the people "eating clutches" are usually brake boosting the shit out of them which yes, will eat clutches when you are brake boosting a car at 50-60mph at 15-20psi instantly putting 600-700ft lbs of torque into the clutch. DUH. lol. But if you drive it like a quasi-normal person it will last just as long as any other application. Again, it's in how you treat it.

With a blower car it's abit harder to get greedy having to take the belt off, switch pulleys, change the tune etc.

Turbo cars are also very, very addicting because of the power they make. The torque is usually very close to the HP numbers in a street car application.

With a roots style blower (whipple, kennebell, tvs, maggie etc) it's instant boost/torque, it makes its power and levels off on a nice flat curve. So when you get there it pulls hard at first, then kinda feels like it stops pulling.

A Centri blower (Vortech, Paxton or Procharger) it makes less torque and builds boost with RPM making better peak power, but less torque.

A turbo makes massive torque instantly and feels like it will never stop pulling. Getting the right setup is crucial for depending on how you plan to use it. (Spool time, bigger, smaller etc) A good, quality kit isn't going to be cheap, but you get what you pay for especially when it comes to turbo kits.

[txcharlie]

My car runs a TVS2300 and puts out 673/617 at the wheels. I agree with most of the comments, but will add one thought.....Don't skimp on the fuel upgrades. A lack of fuel can cause your boosted engine to give up the ghost. I started with 71lb. injectors and a BAP. I just ordered the JPC return fuel system to make sure I have plenty of fuel for any boost level. You will need fuel upgrades if you use E85 as the volume of fuel used is higher than petro.
I've been running the TVS for almost a year with no issues. MT-82, stock clutch, DS and street tires. The moment you bolt on drag radials or slicks, the game changes and your likelihood of breaking stuff goes way up.
There is no such thing as a budget build whether using a turbo, roots, or centrifugal. One upgrade always requires another and another and so on. Just be prepared to spend way more than you planned.
I choose the TVS for it's simplicity, reliability and they seem to make more torque than the KB or centrifugal.
Good luck in your build!! :peace:

[Phuck Phace]

Are you going to daily this? Plan on E85?

[Grandpa]

My car runs a TVS2300 and puts out 673/617 at the wheels. I agree with most of the comments, but will add one thought.....Don't skimp on the fuel upgrades. A lack of fuel can cause your boosted engine to give up the ghost. I started with 71lb. injectors and a BAP. I just ordered the JPC return fuel system to make sure I have plenty of fuel for any boost level. You will need fuel upgrades if you use E85 as the volume of fuel used is higher than petro.
I've been running the TVS for almost a year with no issues. MT-82, stock clutch, DS and street tires. The moment you bolt on drag radials or slicks, the game changes and your likelihood of breaking stuff goes way up.
There is no such thing as a budget build whether using a turbo, roots, or centrifugal. One upgrade always requires another and another and so on. Just be prepared to spend way more than you planned.
I choose the TVS for it's simplicity, reliability and they seem to make more torque than the KB or centrifugal.
Good luck in your build!! :peace:

Is that on the stock longblock and internals?

[txcharlie]

Is that on the stock longblock and internals?

Yes. Saving for the good stuff.

[Grandpa]

Impressive.

[5PointSlow]

My car runs a TVS2300 and puts out 673/617 at the wheels. I agree with most of the comments, but will add one thought.....Don't skimp on the fuel upgrades. A lack of fuel can cause your boosted engine to give up the ghost. I started with 71lb. injectors and a BAP. I just ordered the JPC return fuel system to make sure I have plenty of fuel for any boost level. You will need fuel upgrades if you use E85 as the volume of fuel used is higher than petro.
I've been running the TVS for almost a year with no issues. MT-82, stock clutch, DS and street tires. The moment you bolt on drag radials or slicks, the game changes and your likelihood of breaking stuff goes way up.
There is no such thing as a budget build whether using a turbo, roots, or centrifugal. One upgrade always requires another and another and so on. Just be prepared to spend way more than you planned.
I choose the TVS for it's simplicity, reliability and they seem to make more torque than the KB or centrifugal.
Good luck in your build!! :peace:

What size pulley? I've been considering pulleying mine done to a 79 or 75 from the 82. I have the injectors and bap for it. I know that the 75 ill run out of fuel on E85 but should be good on 93. Not sure though if I want to do that or just go built as swap to a 2.9 whipple.

[txcharlie]

What size pulley? I've been considering pulleying mine done to a 79 or 75 from the 82. I have the injectors and bap for it. I know that the 75 ill run out of fuel on E85 but should be good on 93. Not sure though if I want to do that or just go built as swap to a 2.9 whipple.

It's a 75mm. I run the 90mm to be safe until I build the block. After it's built, I plan on going to a 69mm, OD crank pulley and 72mm TB. Should be good for 750+ at the wheels. If that's not enough, then I'll go with a bigger blower.
Honestly for a street car, can anyone use more the 550-600 at the wheels? But it sure is fun having the extra HP :ROFLJest:

[re-rx7]

Making a car live for a long time comes down to a few things, proper maintence, not beating the snot out of it at every opportunity and the tune itself. A bad tune can kill the most badass super built racecar motors just as easily as a stock motor. A rough driver can also cause alot of damage with constant abuse.

When talking about stress on engine/drivetrain components and which type of boost is the best for it, there is no doubt what so ever that turbos are best way to go. It's the most efficient setup and least stressful because it's making power on already spent energy, there is no belts creating parasitic load etc.

Roots style blowers and centri blowers are stressful on a motor putting a lot of heat into a motor, a blower that takes power from the motor in order to turn it to make boost and also puts a lot of stress on the front of the crank pulling on it all the time. The smaller the pulley, the tighter the belt it requires therefor putting even more stress on the crank.

Example, my buddy Jeremy runs a 3.4 Whipple on his Cobra with a fully built motor including a forged crank and still managed to snap off the crank snout with the balancer still attached right off the front of the block. So, depending on what set up you are running, a stock 5.0 crank is no match for a big roots style blower if you are going to beat on it all the time and hopefully you don't trash the block in the process.

Turbos have none of those issues. It makes power from already used energy, no belts stealing power from the motor. Does not shock the motor/drivetrain as violently as blowers because the power comes in more linear rather than when you downshift a blower car and BOOM, it hits hard pulling on the rotating assembly instantly. Over time, it causes quite abit of stress and damage even to the most civlized drivers.

Yes, you can make a car live a long time, but it's all in how you treat it. Which is why you hear so many varying stories about a car breaking at 550rw or 750rw. Chances are those drivers treat their cars very differently or one had a better tune than the other.

Turbo cars tend to be broke more often for some people because they are very easy to get greedy with. More power is as simple as a button push away. Also, the people "eating clutches" are usually brake boosting the shit out of them which yes, will eat clutches when you are brake boosting a car at 50-60mph at 15-20psi instantly putting 600-700ft lbs of torque into the clutch. DUH. lol. But if you drive it like a quasi-normal person it will last just as long as any other application. Again, it's in how you treat it.

With a blower car it's abit harder to get greedy having to take the belt off, switch pulleys, change the tune etc.

Turbo cars are also very, very addicting because of the power they make. The torque is usually very close to the HP numbers in a street car application.

With a roots style blower (whipple, kennebell, tvs, maggie etc) it's instant boost/torque, it makes its power and levels off on a nice flat curve. So when you get there it pulls hard at first, then kinda feels like it stops pulling.

A Centri blower (Vortech, Paxton or Procharger) it makes less torque and builds boost with RPM making better peak power, but less torque.

A turbo makes massive torque instantly and feels like it will never stop pulling. Getting the right setup is crucial for depending on how you plan to use it. (Spool time, bigger, smaller etc) A good, quality kit isn't going to be cheap, but you get what you pay for especially when it comes to turbo kits.

Your forgetting one crucial detail. HEAT! Turbos produce a ton of heat. Turbo blankets, vented hood are all required IMO. Also turbos are a bitch to track down boost leaks. With so many couplers and clamps it can be quite the chore.

[Dan12GT]

It's a 75mm. I run the 90mm to be safe until I build the block. After it's built, I plan on going to a 69mm, OD crank pulley and 72mm TB. Should be good for 750+ at the wheels. If that's not enough, then I'll go with a bigger blower.
Honestly for a street car, can anyone use more the 550-600 at the wheels? But it sure is fun having the extra HP :ROFLJest:

Damn.. you make me want to go roots blower instead of centrifugal when I do in the future!

[5PointSlow]

Damn.. you make me want to go roots blower instead of centrifugal when I do in the future!

I got video of me dragging one of the almighty centri cars lol. That car was supposed to pull me up top as well. guess what, when I hit 150 I started creeping away. So much for the supposed top end pull that was gonna walk around me. That was on 93 oct as well.

[Dark Pony]

I just rode in Bryan's car earlier today...the KB just kept pulling and pulling. I had no idea he was already past 7300rpm, because it felt like it had more to go. Hard to beat the instant power/torque that it yields...

[downtime!]

The KB is a monster, but there are a couple of blowers that make a good bit more torque than mine. I personally feel that mine, at 625-650 hp, is about at the limit of what can comfortably be driven daily. It's not the fastest car on the road, but it doesn't get beat very often!

[Grandpa]

Your forgetting one crucial detail. HEAT! Turbos produce a ton of heat. Turbo blankets, vented hood are all required IMO. Also turbos are a bitch to track down boost leaks. With so many couplers and clamps it can be quite the chore.

A quality kit (read:not a ON3 kit lol) will have proper cooling and V-band clamps. If you are chasing that many leaks it's a crap kit to start with.There is a reason why some kits are $3k and other $7-8k.

[Grandpa]

Damn.. you make me want to go roots blower instead of centrifugal when I do in the future!

It all depends on personal driving style preferences and long term goals for your car. A Paxton has more big peak horsepower potential with the ability to make over 1000rw, but obviously that will require a full build of the motor, trans, clutch, rear, fuel system etc. Having to spin it to 8krpms isn't exactly street friendly but doable if you drive like an idiot. haha.

With a positive displacement blower, while it may not have a peak horsepower potential such as centri type, the instant torque makes it MUCH more street friendly/fun to drive on the street.

I've had both and both are fun to drive, but for ME, the PD blowers are they way to go for a street car. SO much fun to drive, easy "set it and forget it" type driving as long as you have a good tire on it.

Most street encounters you come across are usually only a gear or two pulls. A PD car will jump out and pull instantly, while a centri car builds power with RPM and usually has to play catch up reeling in a PD car. Centri cars usually make great MPH on the top end, but if you don't have enough ground to cover or the PD car sees you coming they usually hit the brakes early (03/04 Cobra guys are notorious for this! lol)

So pick what fits your driving style best and run with it. :)

[Luke]

Other than JPC and Hellion, has anyone seen any single turbo kits available?

[Grandpa]

Other than JPC and Hellion, has anyone seen any single turbo kits available?

Contact Brooks. He makes custom kits from scratch. Good dude and solid work. :)

[Luke]

Contact Brooks. He makes custom kits from scratch. Good dude and solid work. :)

Yeah I know him, he lives a couple miles from me. When I'm back in town I'll give him a shout. Just seeing what other single kits were available as I hadn't seen much.

[5PointSlow]

It all depends on personal driving style preferences and long term goals for your car. A Paxton has more big peak horsepower potential with the ability to make over 1000rw, but obviously that will require a full build of the motor, trans, clutch, rear, fuel system etc. Having to spin it to 8krpms isn't exactly street friendly but doable if you drive like an idiot. haha.

With a positive displacement blower, while it may not have a peak horsepower potential such as centri type, the instant torque makes it MUCH more street friendly/fun to drive on the street.

I've had both and both are fun to drive, but for ME, the PD blowers are they way to go for a street car. SO much fun to drive, easy "set it and forget it" type driving as long as you have a good tire on it.

Most street encounters you come across are usually only a gear or two pulls. A PD car will jump out and pull instantly, while a centri car builds power with RPM and usually has to play catch up reeling in a PD car. Centri cars usually make great MPH on the top end, but if you don't have enough ground to cover or the PD car sees you coming they usually hit the brakes early (03/04 Cobra guys are notorious for this! lol)

So pick what fits your driving style best and run with it. :)

Knocking down the centri with a PD car! I gave him the hit and I spun. This wasnt even on E85 just my 91 tune with 93 in the tank. The PD blowers are monsters on these cars. :fuckyea:

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